Fun puzzle but LINE should have been accepted IMO
Agreed. It’s boring to replace each LINE with dashes.
@Dan Wholeheartedly agree especially since the clue says “something *written* five times…”. A word is written. A line is drawn. Everything else was a breeze.
@Dan What bothers me about this type of puzzle is that what's accepted is not consistent. I've seen other puzzles of this type that would have accepted either LINE or ----. This tiny bit of frustration marred the end of a lovely puzzle. Disappointing.
@Dan I'm in support of LINE not being accepted while ---- is, because if LINE is entered the downs make so sense. The fundamental gimmick of this one is you have a row of dashes from correct down clues to substitute for the word "line". Writing in LINE makes both the downs and crosses (per the title and revealer) wrong.
@Dan totally agree. I was lightly annoyed after finishing, having gotten (I thought) the trick, and getting the error box. Did my usual run-thru for typos and was stumped, then went back and typed 20 dashes et voila!
The aha when I realized that hyphens went in the squares and that they worked in both directions, well, that brought on a mighty surge of adrena----. Et tu, emu.
@Lewis yep the dash vs. letters was border---- annoying, but the rest of the puzzle didn’t require too much discip---- to solve.
Ack it’s sleeping cars (from 2023) all over again! I would have appreciated having “LINE” being accepted. It’s annoying for these innovative puzzles to be bogged down by me wondering if the interface is going to accept what I think is correct, rather than accepting all permutations of “-“, “L”, “L/-“, “-/L”. Other than that, I thought the puzzle was delightfully breezy. Congrats and thanks Harry!
@Steve That would have made nonsense of DASHEDLINE.
@Dave S That’s what clued me in to replace LINE with “——“ to arrive at the “correct” fill and didn’t make it too painful. But I don’t recall a revealer ever invalidating legitimate answers before. You say it makes nonsense of DASHEDLINE but ——CHART is similar nonsense
@Steve FWIW I finished my solv in the Android app and it accepted LINE
Extremely frustrating for the app to not accept “line” in places of the dashes, given that there was not a clear clue to do so, and if you “cut” the word “line” out of each phrase it made just as much sense. Not to mention this puzzle following so quickly from the “unchecked” clue debacle from a couple weeks ago made it doubly as frustrating. Especially because this was a fairly straightforward forward solve otherwise, yet I spent an inordinate amount of time searching for that one letter I didn’t have right.
Oh this was a tough one -- not the solve; I did that fairly quickly for a Sunday -- but the automated checker which actually wanted dashes instead of the word LINE. I strongly believe that should have been counted as correct. But in any case... got it done!
@Jay The word "line" wouldn't make sense for the downs though, which was what made me sure the hyphen (dash) was correct. .......................................
Not bad for a Sunday but I think that ‘LINE’ should have been an acceptable option where the dashes went. BTW As if the date of this puzzle, Lisa Blunt Rochester has not been sworn in. So she’s not a senator, she’s a senator-elect.
@Javafiend Agree totally. It's frustrating to have figured out the clue but not the way to enter it. When it doesn't solve, you wonder if there's a mistake somewhere. Also, entering hyphens via rebus was tedious, but I dididn't see another way, at least on Android.
Based on previous puzzles feels like having the word or the symbols should have worked.
The columnist has missed the point of the UPARROWS solution, I think. They "make you jump" because pressing the up arrow in a game often causes the character to leap upwards.
@Kyle My thoughts exactly. I had flashbacks to playing DOS games on my ancient XT computer in the 80s.
definitely should accept LINE in the theme entries. good puzzle tho
@Andrew That's how i solved it and it wouldn't take. Checked all my spellings three times before the hyphens struck me.
@Andrew Then the revealer wouldn't make sense.
Extremely frustrating that actually putting LINE in the answers, to complete the words, was incorrect. If it hadn't been for those, I'd have finished the puzzle without cheating. Thanks for ruining my golden streak on a gimmick.
@Dave K. I share you frustration, a little. Since I was confident in the rest of my puzzle, I felt fine in peeking at the answer key linked to at the bottom of this Wordplay post to see what was going on. The dash symbol is more satisfying, but the puzzle should have accepted the characters for LINE as alternates -- if that is technically possible (does anyone know?).
@Eric It is technically possible. It happens all the time with Rebus puzzles. But, the down entries needed the hyphen to work. Having the LINE letters in those four cells makes the down answers non-sensical.
For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would enter L I N E instead of - - - -. None of the down words work without the hyphen, and just look at the title of the puzzle. MULTI HYPHENATES!!! Good puzzle and lots of fun.
@Doug I didn't even look at the title and it seemed obvious to me. I'm glad you liked it too.
@Doug yes the title gave it to me too. This is the first one I think I’ve done where I figured out the trick! I loved this and so happy to have been able to complete it.
@Doug I completely agree with you!
@Doug Agreed. I didn’t catch on as fast as Nancy, but I like crosswords because they constantly make me reconsider my assumptions and mind set. I first entered “L I N E” in 22 across, but thought it was odd that the four crosses for it could be four letter answers instead of 5. So, I looked at the title and got it. Seeing the revealer at 112 A confirmed it (although I first tried putting dashes at the end of that answer until I worked those crosses). Perfectly fine Sunday puzzle. If your initial thought seems a little off, consider that your initial thought was wrong, and think of something else. Or, I guess, you could blame the puzzle for puzzling you.
@Doug The title only confirmed what I knew to be true from the down answers and the revealer.
@Doug Well," line" does work for the across clues. I knew it would be hyphens, but thought if "line" was entered, once the puzzle was completed, a line might appear.
Okey-doke. ( Now I’ve read the comments.) Seriously? Wassup with the negativity? Now I gotta add- I like-liked this uber-whimsical smooth-as-silk word-salad chock-full of riddle-like clues, fresh-and-frivolous fill, and Grade-A cleverly-constructed craftiness! —————————
I enjoyed working this and figured out the gimmick but was SO FRUSTRATED that it wouldn’t complete on my phone because I put in “line” instead of dashes! I thought you never use dashes in a xword! ☹️
Today's prediction is that there are going to be lots of people expressing surprise, astonishment, wonder, annoyance, dislike, anger, hate, bewilderment, plus a whole lot of things that could be characters in "Inside Out," at the notion that you could have a punctuation mark occupy squares in a crossword puzzle. Mostly, things like "they're called cross WORDS, not cross HYPHENS"...
@Steve L Sanctimony? In the NYT crossword puzzle comments section? No way!
@Steve L Might as well just write "Today's prediction: I will, for the 364th time this year, feel like I'm smarter than everybody else in this comment section."
@Steve L Barry's here lol! Also they can write the word DASH in each box too lol! Found that out the hard way when I tediously changed all my -'s to DASH and THEN realized the mistake was MeYER. It was not a difficult Sunday and I am not mad about that lol! I noticed the trick at GET-GO and was all-in at KAL-EL.
@Steve L That's an easy prediction since it's a pain to enter a hyphen on the phone app.
@Steve L Don't sweat it. Enjoy your solving; Enjoy your commenting; And don't worry about those who misinterpret or disagree.
@Steve L, I’m late to the Comments here, but I wanted to congratulate you on your impressive streak. I consider that a tremendous accomplishment. And FWIW, I’m 100% in agreement with your observation today.
This was, to me, a wow puzzle build. Four abutting hyphenated down answers whose across answers ALL read cleanly – five times in the grid! Huh? What? That is amazing! Not only that, the six horizonal theme answers are symmetrical! And nothing feels forced! Deep bow to you, Harry, on that. But even more important, how was the solve? Just right for me today, as after the craziness of the holidays, I was looking for a comfort puzzle, and today, for me, it seemed like the editors were generous with footholds. In addition, once I cracked the theme, the remaining theme answers and the sections they inhabited filled in without struggle. Comfort indeed. Furthermore, what a lovely theme, with those dashes forming LINEs one way, and acting as hyphens the other way – wordplay and word manipulation, both which I adore, all rolled into one. Even a moment of silliness, when my brain tapped me on the shoulder and told me that MUST READ is an anagram of “e-mustard”, a non-existent concept that made me smile, and, for a moment, riff on. Wow build, cozy solve, with a dash, as it were, of whimsy – this was one lovely outing for me, Harry. Thank you so much for making this!
Lewis, i-relish little weirdnesses like e-mustard. (slier hi ;)
The puzzle was really fun until I spent a full extra hour staring at my answers, checking my spelling, wondering where I went wrong only to find out that “line” wasn’t accepted. Idk in my opinion if the app accepts one letter for rebuses than it’s not intuitive that line wouldn’t be accepted here, particularly since it works in the across answers.
@Sabrina I guess this wasn’t actually a rebus (in the crossword sense). And the letters wouldn’t work with the down answers. The hyphens worked with the down words and a string of them is a ‘line’ (in a classical rebus sense). I hope that’s isn’t too confusing!
Wasted a bunch of time trying to figure out what was wrong. Realizing finally I had to change the word line to the dashes. Grrrr
@Erick I was in the same place and came to the comments hoping to see a hint like this, so thanks for that at least!
If I had been solving a print edition, I would have considered the puzzle solved with the word LINE replacing the dashes. IMO, the app should have accepted LINE, DASH, dashes or spaces
@GW - agreed. I’m annoyed I spent over 15 mins trying to find my error before considering Rebuses or other trickery. Fun puzzle, but I was expecting a graphic at the end to add the dashes.
@GW You are right. I do the print edition, and I was perfectly happy with using LINE.
Super annoyed that the only acceptable answer was putting an actual dash.
@Nom De Plume Someone reported that entering a rebus of "dash" in each box worked, so I assume "D"s would as well. In my opinion it should have also accepted plain old "line", "dash", all Hs, all Ls, all Ds, dashes, underscores, or pipe symbols (read as dashes vertically). If you're going to be purposely confusing and break convention, allow solvers to follow suit. Or, maybe, you know, reject and rework the thing. ____________________ Jesse Goldberg 8/28/2024 for Puzzle of the Decade (emu filler)
@Nom De Plume Well, the entire point of the puzzle is that the lines were dashed.
I didn’t see the title and had LINE entered instead of dashes. Slightly frustrating. Fun puzzle altogether.
@Logan I did exactly the same thing :D It's frustrating, but in retrospect it does make sense.
@Logan me too, just had to come to the hints page to know I had to replace them with actual dashes. I try so hard not to!
@Logan I did it too. Broke my streak, but I lost patience trying to check all my answers and figure it out.
@Logan Yes, they really should have allowed LINE as correct. I spent quite a while trying to figure out what was wrong, when really it was nothing.
@Logan I fell into that trap too, and wasted a good bit of time searching for an actual typo only to find I had to replace all the LINES I had so dutifully filled in. Perfectly fine puzzle otherwise.
@Logan *Shrug* I had LINE in five places, dreading having to figure out what the app would accept as correct, but then I solved 112A, and it was a trivial fix—much more elegant than the puzzle that required numerals (and not spelled-out numbers in rebuses, even as an alternative) but indicated so only in a note that isn’t displayed by default in the app, and infinitely more so than the art[ist] thief one where a similarly hidden set of instructions was unintentionally more puzzling to parse than any of the clues and then arguably contradicted by the answer key.
I liked this puzzle! Why? 1) I love gimmicky puzzles! 2) As a Monday-Tuesday solver, I rarely solve Sunday puzzles without significant help. 3) I solved this one 5:28 faster than my average (with a few lookups, which I consider acceptable). 4) I found most of the cluing just the right amount of challenging for me. About the dashes/hyphens: I figured out the trick pretty quickly after seeing the title. I actually had “I’s” instead of dashes because I was writing them vertically. 😂 When I didn’t get the music, I changed them all to hyphens. No biggie. Lots of people have suggested that “LINE” should have been accepted. I disagree. Then the crossings would make no sense. Thank you Mr. Zheng for an enjoyable puzzle! 😊
@Cherry Well done! And if LINE were accepted, then the LINEs wouldn’t be dashed.
"Why aren't you dashing off to work on your punctuation?" "Hyphen-ished already." (These puns make their mark.)
Mike, Your pun today is a winner! Minus poor in comparison.
@Mike Comma gain? I have a colon my ears are stuffed (he added parenthetically). Hope the emus don't slash this one.
@Mike Stop picking on him. The man is already way overworked! Must he die a critical mess?
Such a fun, final Sunday puzzle for 2024. Thanks. My favorite clue was Vanishing point. I also have The Pink Panther theme song playing in my head and I don't mind it. Happy week to all and big hopes for the new year. May our fears be unrealized and our good health, good intentions - good everything - prevail. Thanks to all in our special community. You help more than you'll ever know. :)
@Min How lovely, Min. All blessings to you.
@Min Many thanks to you and the same message back at you from Australia 🇦🇺
Solved the puzzle fairly quickly, only to spend another 15 minutes checking every cross before finally concluding that I needed to input LINE as hyphens. (Yes, I understand “DASHED LINE” as a revealer, but one could also argue you have to “DASH” the word LINE as an action of viewing in order to read the down answers…e.g. it isn’t clear to me that this mandates only one input type.)
Um, no. After being told for years to omit hyphens in crossword answers, now we're supposed to start including them?
As seems to happen about half the time on Thursdays and Sundays, the comments seem to be split between those who accept that the NYTimes puzzle is a place of innovation and novelty and those who think that a crossword puzzle has to follow certain rules and to play with those rule is a violation of trust. Of course, everyone is entitled to their preferences and their feelings. But, in the final analysis, try to remember: It's just a puzzle!
After finishing, I thought, "Well, that was an easy Sunday. I guess there won't be many comments today." Then I was shocked to see 200 comments so early in the morning and more surprised that so many people wanted the word line in there. It never occured to me to put anything other than dashes in the boxes right from the get-go (or is that get line go?). Even if you started with line, the revealer tells you it's DASHED LINE. Oh well, fun idea, and I especially liked THIN AIR for [Vanishing point?].
@Nancy J. Some of us thought they were using "dash" as a verb. So you would "dash" the LINE and just read the down clue without those letters.
I never cease to be amazed by the tempest in a teapot that puzzles like this evoke. I caught on to addition of the hyphen early on by looking at the title and realizing that the combined dashes make up a line horizontally and fit into the numerous hyphenated theme words vertically. No need for a rebus or the word “line”. I guess some peoples’ minds work differently. A nice Sunday puzzle and one that fits into to Goldilocks category for me.
This was a fun and well designed puzzle! It wasn’t a rebus or poorly edited puzzle. The “trick” was literally in the puzzle title. And it came to me from the crosses with ROGUE and IGER. The ———— , which create a LINE, are the only solution. LINE should not be accepted, nor should a rebus. In my humble, average-solver opinion. Happy New Year 🥳
Fun puzzle! The title really helped to catch onto the concept, but I was looking for double hyphens for some reason. And my best Sunday time yet - under 29 minutes (28:59). I’d like to hear what times others have done - I have no idea if this is really short or just short for me. Honestly, I’m not a fast solver - I tend to plod along, but this one really flowed. (Streak is now at 744 games. Sorry for the bragging, but it’s been hard won - with three software glitches that wiped out my record (big thanks to the tech support team for restoring it!) and a 5-day hospital stay, I’m very pleased (and a bit surprised) I’ve been able to maintain it.) Thanks for reading - this community is a great break from the nonsense of the world. Happy New Year, everyone!
@Melvin Hoagland The site 'xwstats' says the median solve time is 18:34 (of those signed up at xwstats) and rates the puzzle very easy: <a href="https://xwstats.com/puzzles/2024-12-29" target="_blank">https://xwstats.com/puzzles/2024-12-29</a> I plodded in at 36:33, much faster than my Sunday average, and my streak is alive at 973 days (and 1967 puzzles solved).
@Melvin Hoagland 33:35 for me. And enjoy the brag! 744 is indeed a hard-won streak. I'm at 1267 as of tonight. Keep up the good work, a streak grows one puzzle at a time! :)
@Melvin Hoagland This was my fastest Sunday too, just over 20 mins. Figuring out the line thing early helped a lot.
@Melvin Hoagland Congrats on your streak, that's a great run. Times aren't discussed on here too much, but I think posting a sub-30 minute solve here is pretty good. IMO if you're doing that regularly on Sundays you're doing well. There are a lot of regular (and irregular, like myself) posters here who I suspect put up some pretty speedy numbers. I clocked in at just over 19 minutes today. Speed is learnable, btw, and with solving streak you could probably increase your speed quite a bit. Device matters - I solve on my phone, which adversely affects my time, both in terms of fat-fingering letters as well as how many clues I can see at once. The latter is particularly important as it limits available strategies like clue memorization, solving the downs, etc that a lot of really fast solvers use. (I can use those tools to get some decent times but I cannot *touch* competitive solvers' times. But even a limited application of them on the phone app helped me blow away previous bests.) Happy new year!
@Melvin Hoagland 26 minutes for me. My Sunday average is 42 minutes, my Sunday best is 19 minutes, and my streak is at 876.
@Melvin Hoagland not my fastest Sunday, but just over 16 minutes faster than my average. My streak is at 1270 after this puzzle!
Thanks to all who replied for the feedback and encouragement :-) We do this alone but we’re in it together!
@Melvin Hoagland Hi Melvin ... I got it in 24:35, which is also a personal best for Sunday, so we're both happy! Congratulations on your terrific streak. My best streak is 25, although I do set myself the extra challenge of doing each puzzle without any help. Happy New Year!
When I saw the puzzle title, I thought, ahh, we've got hyphens, and marched the first batch into the puzzle. Definitely a big help in solving. When I couldn't figure out why REUP wouldn't work? Oh ho, it's got a hyphen, so there will be three more with it, which made the puzzle almost a giveaway, but the rest of it was still fun to do and after an exhausting week I needed a little TLC. Emily Dickinson is a lovely way to start a puzzle, especially with this one: The Soul selects her own Society Emily Dickinson The Soul selects her own Society — Then — shuts the Door — To her divine Majority — Present no more — Unmoved — she notes the Chariots — pausing — At her low Gate — Unmoved — an Emperor be kneeling Upon her Mat — I've known her — from an ample nation — Choose One — Then — close the Valves of her attention — Like Stone — Thank you, Harry Zheng. It was worth all your trouble.
@dutchiris Dutch, thanks for all your wonderful comments and reflections this year -- and putting one of my favorite Dickinson poems in your comment was a real gift. I hope you have a happy and healthy 2025. Cheers.
I figured out the trick when I entered ORE-IDA. Once that dash (hyphen) was in there, and I came to 112A, I immediately realized that the two places I had “line” had to be replaced by dashes. If you entered “line”, none of the down answers made any sense. Furthermore, the revealer basically tells us to put in the dashes in five locations. I guess I don’t understand why so many people are angry about this. If they read their down clues, they would realize that none of those answers were correct if the word line was there. Kudos to Harry on this clever Sunday puzzle. I really enjoyed it!
@Jacqui J Yes, it really does make no sense why so many are upset. The verticals don't work without the dashes, so the word line in each place would be thoroughly incorrect!
It is well known that people tend to remember, in various contexts, some sort of "Golden Age" that never existed. Like, how wonderful the '50s were and we should go back to those much better times. No, the '50s weren't all that great, if you view that era through a realistic lens. Likewise, all the whiners in here complain about how there was a "Golden Age" of wonderful puzzles when Will Shortz was the editor, and everything has gone to someplace very low in a hand basket since he's been on leave. No. The very same whiners who whine up a storm most Thursdays and Sundays -- any day when the puzzle is harder than a Monday or Tuesday, really -- were whining up a storm when Will was editing the puzzles, too. They just forget about all the whining that went on back then. There are no "Golden Ages." Stephen Jay Gould did a great job of debunking these sorts of false memories in Eight Little Piggies. Don't get me wrong -- I respect and admire Will Shortz and will welcome his return. I also respect and admire Joel Fagliano and all the effort he has put into these puzzles over the past several months. He doesn't deserve the vitriol that is directly or indirectly (passive-aggressively?) directed toward him when a puzzle is a little bit... puzzling. Will's return will not result in less whining. There will be no return to a mythical "Golden Age" of whine-free puzzledom. Having said that, it sounds like there is an issue entering dashes on mobile apps. That should be fixed.
@CaptainQuahog I agree with your assessment of the current state of editing of the puzzle. I believe that Mr Fagliano has done an admirable job since being thrown into the lurch. All constructors/editors have their own style and Mr F. is exhibiting his. Is it worse or better than Mr Shortz? That is a matter of opinion. I would also agree that if there are technical issues, they should be addressed, but as far as the complaining about streaks lost because “line” should have been accepted, to me the title and revealer gave ample clues to the correct solution.
@CaptainQuahog Hear hear. I think Joel has done a fantastic job and look forward to his full editorship. The only thing I've noticed during Joel's tenure, if anything, is the continuing trend toward easier puzzles. I was hoping, in the early days, that he might put the kibosh on that. Ah me.
@CaptainQuahog I've been working through the archives and, not that you need me to, can absolutely back-up everything you say here about the editing. The archives are rife with the same kind of complaints under Will's leadership. Crossword editing seems like it would be a super fun job but they must have awfully thick skin to keep at it! Personally, I just don't get it. I often feel like I just don't belong here. I couldn't even finish reading through the complaints, I mean comments, today because it BOGs down my spirit too much to read them after enjoying another fun solve. And I solved on my mobile app today, as I do much of the time. I don't have anything fancy but I don't seem to have the problems others report.
@CaptainQuahog Very well put. Haters gonna hate, I guess.
thank you, harry zheng, for a perfectly fun sunday solve. i hope we don't have to wait a whole nother year for your next creation!
I’m a little surprised at the number of comments wishing for anything other than hyphens to be accepted. Maybe I just got “lucky” today by reading the title right away and then having the “aha” moment come so quickly in the NW corner. Not trying to toot my own horn (ok maybe I am but it’s such a rare moment), but wouldn’t letters of any variety make the down answers nonsense?
@Krad Yes they would, which is why I don't understand why so many are insisting they should be accepted.
Grr. It's things like this that make me grumpy. I do these puzzles on my phone (Android), so no title visible. And I've always done puzzles starting with 1A, then going through all the across clues before looking at any downs. So I confidently fill in LINE this, and LINE that, and LINE the other, till I get down to 117A, where I started to be concerned about all those LINE answers. But, carry on. I considered "dotted LINE", but chose "broken LINE", since it seemed obvious that the LINEs were breaking up the down answers. After a while, it became clear from the crosses that it had to be DASHED LINE (even though that's not a common phrase), but I stuck to my guns till every square was filled in, only to be told _Not Quite_ Fly specked my way through it, only to decide that the powers that be want a dash (but what kind of dash? m-dash? n-dash?, hyphen? minus sign?) in those squares. So I laboriously go through all 20 of them, using 6 screen taps to replace each letter with a hyphen, for a total of 120 actions. All the while hoping - like _really_ hoping - that they didn't want both a dash and the letter, or a different kind of dash. After all that effort, I finally get the gold star. Yay, I guess? But it stopped being an enjoyable experience, and just became work the moment I realised that those five words had to be rebused. Bleh.
@Grumpy The title on an Android phone is on the page that opens up when you press the small i for information. Works the same for iPhones.
@Grumpy Granted I’m not using android, but if I click the “more” button it takes me to symbols. I don’t have to press “rebus” to add the symbol of number. Is it possible you inadvertently added more steps than needed?
@Grumpy I didn’t have to rebus inputting the dashes. Just inserted a hyphen instead of a letter.
@Red Carpet On the Android app there is no way to access the hyphen button on the keyboard without first hitting the rebus button.
Really feel that “line” should have been accepted. Drove myself crazy checking my work, turned on auto check and found it was just where I had “line”. It’s a crossword, symbols shouldn’t be a thing
@Chelsea In each case, the four Downs required hyphens; the Across answer-- for ONLY that one entry--implied LINE. I am one for whom that seemed obvious once I had scrabbled around for a bit (tried WIFI WORKER, which was worse than wrong. Had NO WAY at 1D and YELLOW at 30A (because I'm allergic to hymenoptera stings, I'm always on alert for YELLOW jackets.... It made sense at the time.) So ....you didn't catch on fully, but maybe next time?
Loved it :) I thought the title was a give-away for the hyphens (I only realized the "line" quite late on), and don't really understand all the grumbling here about the construction.
@KW I usually botch a gimmicks, but I plowed right through this one and had a great time.
Hey all : I was looking for something in the wordplay articles, and found this update about Will Shortz: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/29/crosswords/editors-note-guess-whos-back-back-again.html" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/29/crosswords/editors-note-guess-whos-back-back-again.html</a> Line up now to dash through solving puzzles touched by Shortz!
@Cat Lady Margaret Thank you CLM! So December 30 is the day, and the byline will actually change back! What terrific news! "Please congratulate Will on his return, and our puzzle editor Joel Fagliano for an incredible run as interim head crossword editor." Yay! ____________________ Jesse Goldberg 8/28/2024 for Puzzle of the Decade (emu filler)
@Cat Lady Margaret I assumed that the majority of the 350+ comments were celebrating Mr Shortz's impending return. Nope, just moaning about the hyphens.
@Cat Lady Margaret So happy to hear some good news! Thrilled that Will is doing well enough to return to editing the puzzles (and playing table tennis).
For those who solve on a stone tablet, the druids (who also manage that English rock group) require the special squares be incised with an em dash, a forward slash, and a hyphen. Your solving platform/format may be more forgiving. Gotta dash.
@Barry Ancona This advice is unnecessary for those who already did the puzzle, and it's a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't.
@Mr Dave The entire column is a spoiler. Always has been.
The perfect trick puzzle. Nothing makes sense until you get the trick and then the scales fall from your eyes. I was baffled and frustrated in the NW. Every Down answer I wanted wasn't the right length -- until suddenly it was! And all the hyphenated answers were precisely the original answers I wanted but couldn't make fit. That's really good cluing. Once I had the DASHED LINES in the NW, I looked for all the other long answers that would begin with the word LINE. I filled them all in before checking what the hyphenated DOWN words would be. Of course I might have gotten the NW much more quickly if I'd paid attention to the title from the GET-GO. I can be so dumb. But since I don't time myself, it really didn't make any difference. I wrote in DOTTED LINE immediately. But that's what you sign on, not what you cut along. The phrase DASHED LINE does not come trippingly to my tongue, but there's no doubt that that's what those things you're told to "cut along"* look like. Is that a term that's familiar to everyone else? A wonderful idea, wonderfully executed. It's one of those themes I wish I'd thought of myself. A clever, enjoyable Sunday. *Small rant: They used to make those DASHED LINES in a way that you could easily tear them off. (Does this give away my advanced age?) Now you have to get up out of your chair to go get a scissors to cut them. Can't they make anything as well or as conveniently as they used to? Small rant over.
Nancy, Some DASHED LINES still have perfs ... but fewer presses these days have perforators (and I've never seen a printer with one).
It may have taken me almost an hour but this was the first Sunday I've been able to solve myself and I'm very proud of it! I was able to pick up on the theme early in the top right quadrant and that did wonders for getting through the grid. Thanks for the puzzle, it was a fun solve!
@Jake Congrats!! I have no doubt it's your first of many more!! ☺️
Should have allowed “line”, since, individually, those are hyphens, not dashed lines.
For anyone complaining that the word 'line' wasn't accepted, the name of the puzzle is 'multi-hyphenates'! The hyphen is staring us in the face from the beginning. Writing 'line' everywhere a hyphen should be would have conflicted with the theme and led to a less elegant puzzle.
@CB Nope. A hyphen is a line. No conflict. It works fine that way and should absolutely have been accepted.... particularly since it's literally the correct answer for the across clue! While this was a poor presentation in its online mechanics, the grid certainly DOES work better with those hyphens in place for the down answers. Yet the Times has clearly taught us that the down answers don't have to make any sense at all - see the abysmal and openly hostile "art theft" puzzle a Sunday or two ago, which threw any puzzle coherence out the window..... ____________________ Jesse Goldberg 8/28/2024 for Puzzle of the Decade (emu filler
@CB I changed all of my LINEs to - - - - but it wasn't accepted. Then finally I deleted one regular letter and added it back and finally my grid was accepted. I think I wasted like 10 minutes trying to figure out what was wrong (and nothing was wrong, which I finally realized when I wasn't able to edit the grid anymore on my phone but the time kept ticking -- I was only able to correct it on a computer).
@B Pretty strong words. So you're insisting that LIPLREAD, AGEIOLD, GETNGO, and REEUP make sense to you? They don't to me, especially in context of the puzzle title and the very clear revealer in 112A.
Easiest puzzle of my life. I can't believe people didn't realize the dashes. Sheeesh
This is one of those puzzles that was just the right amount of "wait, now, what?" for me. The first and third sets of downs contained at least two answers each that made me go, "Hmmmm, too many squares for that...." It was not much longer before I caught on that all those answers were hyphenated. Once I knew the fill, I was still unsure what to enter, so I left the squares blank until I got the idea from the revealer that I should use hyphens. All in all, this was a perfect Sunday puzzle for me. Medium difficulty with a fair and soluble gimmick.
I don’t know—- the dashes made sense to me. I originally had “Line” written in the 5 clues, but when it didn’t accept, I looked again at the title, the revealer clue, and most importantly, the down answers. The down answers only made sense with a dash. It’s not too much of a stretch to put a dash in there. It seemed like most folks eventually got there after some time. It’s almost as if this was like a puzzle that needed to be solved! I get why pushing people outside of there comfort zone is upsetting to some, but cmon, this is just for fun. Have a little challenge with thinking outside the box. Just my two cents…
What an excellent puzzle! I had no issue with the dashes. The comments are beset with belly-aching per usual. Well done, Harry Zheng!
Absolutely loved this puzzle. Like many others, I was seconds away from a personal best on a Sunday. I'm shocked by the number of complaints regarding the puzzle not accepting LINE as an alternative to the theme. UHLUH, NOINO, TONDO, and OPEED for the 1D through 4D are clearly not acceptable words. I completely agree with the constructor's and editors' decision not to accept LINE and was amused when I had to erase my own entries of LINE to replace for hyphens regardless of the seconds it cost me on my time. Thank you for the fun Sunday morning, Harry!
@SCM there are all sorts of rebuses that are accepted various ways in the app. PB/AU from a while ago comes to mind. Many of the accepted entries in that puzzle led to “unacceptable” words in one direction. Actually, many accepted rebus responses in many puzzles lead to strange words in a given direction, but they’re still accepted as correct! I don’t mind if the rebus always needs to be entered, but this puzzle seems to be a bit of an outlier in the specificity of the response that is required. Still enjoyed the puzzle overall.