IBEENHAD is not a thing. Smart TVs do not have DVRs. If someone is the PERP[etrator] in a TV show, they're probably not an extra, they'd be a main character. Overall, an unenjoyable puzzle, even after figuring out the gimmick. Just a real slog to complete, even with cheating.
@Dave K. My smart tv is able to record tv shows and movies. It alerts me when I get close to the max storage limit. I would equate that to an internal dvr. 😉
@Dave K. I been had is said ALL the time, even if I'd want to remove my tongue rather than say it myself. Some crime shows are all about solving a particular crime and the perpetrator is a guest star. But in other cop shows there are petty criminals routinely rounded up throughout the show for various crimes. Those brief actors might well be considered extras. So yeah these clues were unnecessarily stretchy, but they're fine. And I hardly found this a slog. After the revealer it was practically breezy.
@Dave K. It certainly is a thing, I just think it should have been signaled by a clue that was equally ungrammatical (They done got me!)
@Dave K. Agree completely. I'm shocked to see how many people loved today's puzzle. The theme clues were easy, but the ones you listed (and a couple more) were tortured and poorly clued. Least enjoyable puzzle in recent memory.
@Dave K. I BEEN HAD is most certainly a thing. I even say it occasionally when I feel tricked, as with a misleading crossword clue. I agree about the PERP not being an extra, but the puzzle was, in fact, enjoyable. I did not need to "cheat."
@Dave K. Re: cheating - I was googling with abandon by the 30-minute mark. I figured out WHAT GOES UP early on, and still couldn't figure out the gimmick until I read the column. With six clues that couldn't be solvable on their own, plus the headscratchers you mentioned, any pride I might have felt in completing it unaided was long since outweighed by the frustration. Today I wear my Cheaty McCheaterson hat with no shame whatsoever.
@Dave K. - YOUR smart TV may not have a DVR, but mine does. I don't use it, but I could if I wanted to. Just because YOUR experience lacks something doesn't mean that thing is absent from the entire universe.
@Dave K. If you really think that I BEEN HAD isn't a thing, then Y o u BEEN HAD. It's so old it's got whiskers.
The obvious cleverness required to construct this decidedly did not translate into pleasure for the solver. Too clever by half; the aha moment was replaced by relief that it was over.
@Tim In LA Not my experience at all. I thought the amount of cleverness was fine. Tired phrases like "too clever by half" do not translate into pleasure for this reader.
@Tim In LA Perhaps a more correct version of your comment would read, "...did not translate into pleasure for this solver" rather than "the solver" because plenty of us enjoyed it.
@Tim In LA "Too clever by half" usually means that the commenter did not understand the gimmick or did not appreciate it.
@Tim In LA PS Take a look at Steve's comment adjacent (later) than yours. He says basically the same thing, but more objectively.
To quote my teenage nephew: “Bruh.” Lots of proper names and general miscellany but light on clever clues that made me say “Ahhhh, I get it now.” Small thing, but I got stuck on smart TVs having a DVR. Do they? Did they ever? I’ve had cable boxes with DVRs, and now it’s part of my streaming service. Smart TVs typically indicate internet access and apps, not recording technology. Maybe I’m wrong.
@Dan Yeah, I really liked the theme, but the fill itself was not my cup of tea.
@Dan I’m pretty sure my LG has built in memory to record shows and movies.
@Dan I was doubting TV/DVR but I guess they were made for a short while. I think TVs with just apps for streaming etc have taken over the market.
@Dan Not in my experience. But my experience is limited to the smart TVs I've owned, which, although probably number more than some other people have owned, still represent a minuscule fraction of the models that have been produced in the history of smart TVs. So I have to assume that the constructor and editors did their due diligence and verified that smart TVs with DVRS exist, or have existed at some point.
@Dan I checked. Apparently some Samsungs and LGs were able to do this, if not others. I've found that I almost never rewatch something I've already seen, and I haven't watched broadcast TV since the 1980s, so the whole idea would be useless to me. But apparently there at least were, at one point, smart TVs that could do this, and there may be some current ones that can.
It clicked with me, so +1 for the enjoyers.
I can not tell you how much I appreciate that the theme answers still make legitimate words by themselves (TAKEI, TONYA, etc)! It's one of my pet peeves when the answers are things like FONEINGROCKZALL (which is an actual NYT crossword theme answer from 2020).
@Ben Well, he had to resort to German for 17A. Still, pretty impressive.
@Ben Gibberish answers annoy me, too. I don't want anyone looking at my filled-in puzzle and thinking I don't know how to spell.
@Ben The infamous Art Heist had WNKEES, FROROTEN, STEAEN and more. El stinko.
To those commenters who mentioned the puzzle I made with Jeff Chen that was referred to in Simeon's notes (and thank you, @PM for those kind words) -- yes, a bit of déjà vu at coming across today's theme. But please note that Simeon's notes make it clear that he came upon this theme on his own, independently. And when I realize, even in this small instance, that his mind and my mind thought alike, he with his Hall of Fame inventive mind, well, that humbles and thrills me to no end.
@Lewis I didn’t see Simeon’s Constructor Note before posting. Glad he gave you a well-deserved shout out. If memory serves, you and Jeff won the inaugural Sunday POY for your (brilliant) efforts.
I like the twists and tricks of Thursdays but this was not my jam. IMHO the theme felt "forced." Plus that along with a lot of obscure names and multiple entries that were borderline at best (IBEENHAD - not a thing, DVR- smart TVs dont have em and PERP is almost assuredly NOT an extra) This one just wasnt for me... Looking forward to a nice themeless Friday palate cleanser tomorrow
"Do you like gravity?" "Yeah, I'm down with that." (That pun felt forced.)
@Mike Gravity is a powerful guy—he's got a lot of pull. I'll let it go at that, but I hope he doesn't. (Guess that'll have to tide us over.)
@Mike Actually, I think it fell right into place.
Loved it. So clever and so well constructed, the gentle downward placement of each of the themers, that they spelled out actual words or names (HESHE was a stretch), and obviously it led to things like KIROV, but what can a poor boy do? I thought the whole thing was first rate and that names you didn't know could get filled in by the crosses. There was always one "starter" clue in the clumps of harder ones, the clues that give you a foot in the door. Who had ISHMAEL just as you were starting out before quickly going to ALI BABA? (Which was even better anyway). And it makes sense that Eli means "My God" -- I'm sure many a New York Giant fan, in that terrible season of 2018, was muttering, growling, shouting, "My God, won't somebody give Eli Manning the old heave ho?!!!!???"
@john ezra Yep to Ishmael as my immediate and confident answer for 2D !
@john ezra I had ISHMAEL too. Is there a more famous opening line in a book?
@John ezra Especially since Ali Baba's was an "opening" line.
Wow I guess I’m in the minority today. I thought the theme was brilliantly constructed and the fill was good, I just thought the clueing was too easy. I didn’t give hardly anything a passing glance until the middle bottom, and that’s only because I forgot the Wizards were NBA not NHL and was looking for TUNE or TONE before TONYAWARD (terrific clue that). My only real nit was Stadia for Stadiums in the clue (made me think it would be something archaic, seriously who says stadia today?) and I didn’t mind I BEEN HAD but think it should have been signaled by something else non grammatical (They done got me! was my suggestion in an earlier post). I guess I got ALIBABA early on and was off to the races, but based on others’ reactions I was just on the constructor’s wavelength. But I have loads of appreciation for today’s puzzle.
@SP The very use of the word "sucker" in the clue put me in a gangster frame of mind. "You dirty rat fink! I been had!"
@SP I loved the theme but I thought a lot of the clues were pretty clunky. But I still agree with you, on the measure, a good puzzle.
Was looking for a quick Thursday. This wasn’t it. But it was clever. I really struggled with it, more than I should have, given I figured out the theme pretty early. I was really hamstrung by fill that I thought were gimmies. Like paver for MASON. Match for AGREE. Bland for ICIER. that said. If I was more relaxed and not trying to power solve. I think I would have enjoyed it more. But that’s on me. But gold, at least. I’m not a fan at all of IBEENHAD. It’s the expression, “I’ve been had?” And DVRs aren’t really features of smart TVs, are they? I don’t think like a Samsung, has a built in DVR. It’s more like a service than a feature. Methinks. But I think some clever non themer cluing. It was definitely “Thursday worthy.” Thanks Simeon.
@Weak my LG TV has built in memory to store shows and movies. I would equate that to a dvr 😉
@Weak Funny I read it as a Smart DVR for my TV rather than a DVR for my smart TV. I guess however you slice it that clue was a little off
Deb, I knew my husband was a KEEPER when the first time she met him, Stripes (my kitty) jumped up and sat on his lap. She usually hid under my bed when anyone came over. She knew he was special.
@Nancy J. Animals seem to know when someone is a good person, don’t they?
@Nancy J. We knew our cat, Pyewacket was a KEEPER when we met her at the shelter. My husband walked into the room where she was and promptly flopped over and showed him her belly. Cats don’t usually do that! Then she did the same for me! We’ve had her 10 years now, and she had always been a joy.
@dutchiris Your comment is one of those jewels that should be repeated at the top of the stack.
The clues/answers and theme felt more tortured than usual. Oh well, there's always tomorrow
I found this tedious. I never got the gimmick until I read the blog. Oh well.
37-Across should be DOMI, the plural of DOMUS, since the clue gives "stadia" in Latin. For those of you who can't see me through your screens, my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek. ;-)
@The X-Phile Well, with five boxes to fill, of course that would be DOMII.
@The X-Phile Actually, for my Latin pedant pals, the plural of DOMUS is domūs.
@The X-Phile “The Romans, they go the house?”
@The X-Phile Damn! I missed this whole thread!
What's the vocative plural of "octopus"?
Thanks to all who are saying they didn’t get the theme, even after the puzzle was solved, I’m feeling very smart today! I got it relatively early in my solve. I enjoy these types of puzzles. Keep them coming.
Well, Simeon’s inventive themes can hide his constructing prowess. Note that not only are today’s gimmick answers hard to come up with, they are symmetrically placed, very hard to pull off. Bravo! But grid-building skill always takes second seat to “How was the solve?” To me, a wordplay lover, this rocked. Look at those clues for ALI BABA, EURO, MASON, ADAGE, ICIER, STAND, and TONY AWARD. (Those last four are orinal, BTW.) To me, who relishes overcoming adversity, there were plenty of trip-ups to unriddle. To me who loves to have memories re-kindled, STAND had me flashing on the incredibly heavy music stands from when I played in a middle school band. To me, who loves beauty and fun in answer, there was SEAWEED WRAP, ZORK, HEAVE HO, EMERITI, ZING, and KEEPERS. To me, who loves serendipities, sharing the grid was TIN and a backward TINS. How was the solve? As usual, with your puzzles, Simeon, this was sublime. Thank you!
Oops! "Original" please, instead of "orinal", which sounds like, well, never mind.
Perfect Thursday puzzle. Capital on the Med and musical appreciation clues especially nice. And some (but not all) of the “tricks” solved by crosses. Nice work
Off to a good start and enjoying the bouncy theme. Came here to rejoice over ZORK, an early classic of the Interactive Fiction (IF) genre. I suppose it was a "PC game" in a sense, but ZORK was originally a mainframe game devised at MIT. I first encountered it on the Commodore VIC-20, and I've been a huge fan of IF ever since. Adventure, Colossal Cave, Infocom, the Inform parser, the Interactive Fiction Database ... I know way too much trivia about this topic, don't get me started! > DOWN It is pitch black. You might get eaten by a grue. > LIGHT LAMP 💡 Anybody else love this stuff as much as I do?
@Matt P.S.: Finished in 15:21. Respectable for such a chewy grid!
@Matt The puzzle had plenty of twisty little passages, all alike.
@Matt I just posted a comment on this topic before I read yours. Glad to see somebody else who was around when it all started.
@Matt I was surprised to see ZORK in the crossword! A real blast from the past! I only ever played it once on PDP's in Boston where someone had brought it from MIT. (We're talking '78 or 79 I think...). Didn't encounter it in the midwest or west coast so doubted many would've heard of it, and it was such a long time ago. I never did the commercial PC gaming thing & didn't realize I missed a commercial series of Zork after that. Bummer.
@Matt I still miss Infocom. Sitting at my (long gone) TRS-80 Model III, the moment I finally thought of moving the rug was one of the defining moments of my childhood. Those games could run on every computer model that existed, haha. On another note, if Eddie could ‘done did this puzz’ I suppose we can all been had. Or something.
@Matt When I was in high school in the 80s, you could buy software that would let you make a Zork-style game of your own. A friend and I spent a couple of glorious months programming a game based at our school with all the requisite Zorkian misdirects and grues (who were teachers we didn’t care for). It’s one of my best memories of the time, and this clue made me smile and think about it.
@Matt it sounds as if our Polish buddy @Andrzej would but unfortunately he's taking a break.
@Matt I loved all those games. My favorites were Leather Goddesses of Phobos and the text adventure version of Hitchhiker’s Guide. I’m happy they’re still on the internet.
@Matt Yes!! 🙋🏼♀️ Zork nerd here. I loved those games and played a lot of them
Cute, and pretty simple to complete once you get the revealer answer. This was exactly what I expect for a Thursday. At first the theme fill seemed easy - "take in" reading only down and "reserves" also reading only down. But what does that make "bit tender"? How is that a person with a cause? Something else was up. So things only became clearer after getting the revealer clue. Then ensued a modicum of delight as I mostly breezed through the rest, still experiencing some awkward hesitation before getting the last theme up / down with radar. "Tone award" also slowed me down for a hot second. I really enjoyed this construction. Thursdays should always be this level of cleverness. Thanks!
@B I don’t believe it’s ‘bit tender’ for 17A, I think it’s ’bitter ender’, as in someone who sees something through to the bitter end
IT’S LOVE! Such a clever theme and revealer, and one which I needed to successfully solve (I’m looking at you, ZORK). Great way to debut TONY AWARD, and with a brilliant clue to boot. Which reminds me, I like HEAVE HO. Fun plurals GENII and EMERITI. Danke, Simeon. That was fun.
Must say, I'm surprised at the backlash to 30A. In casual conversation (at least mine), 'VE is often omitted. "You been sitting on that sofa for a while!" "Yeah, I been stuck on this puzzle for an hour!" I can easily come up with a dozen more examples.
@Bill in Yokohama - I mean, sure... you can come up with other examples of using bad english. I just don't think most people think "I been had!" or "I been stuck on this puzzle." I may not say "I've been stuck on this puzzle" but I might say "I'm stuck on this puzzle".. but unless I was trying to slangify my language for affect, I wouldn't say "I been..."
@Bill in Yokohama Sorry, Bill, but it's not always the case. Not in my US family, at least. My mother would've had a conniption fit. And you'd better pronounce the 'd of "you'd better" or you'd live to regret it.
@Bill in Yokohama I completely agree. I heard speech like this when we lived in Texas all the time.
@Bill in Yokohama The 'd was merely an added bonus. You are most welcome.
I am studying classical guitar. I've just moved beyond the more basic pieces and am currently working on Tárrega's "Adelita." The infamous twelveth measure that has a barre chord and an ornament that asks for an impossible (for me, at this stage) reach has me really discouraged. My lesson is at two o'clock, and one again I will show up having made zero progress. I was seriously thinking of just giving up the guitar. I just did this puzzle and read the commentary, which includes the phrase "has a good beat and you can dance to it," which is a link. I hit the link; it links to an article which talks about the phrase as used on the TV show "American Bandstand." But... I continued to the rest of the article. IT'S ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY OF PLAYING BARRE CHORDS ON THE GUITAR, AND CONTAINS THE PHRASE "DON'T GIVE UP." What are the odds? So, OK...I'll go see my world-class instructor today, tell her what's going on, bring her my copy of Segreras exercises, and plead for help. But I won't give up.
@Bruce Bravo!! I guess I'll give up kvetching about the group quilt project (at least for a day) and just try to find a way to forge ahead instead of giving up!
@Bruce Classical guitar is a difficult instrument, but oh so satisfying. Keep at it. And barre chords are hard for any kind of guitar player — maybe slightly easier on an electric guitar since the action is lower. Now I need to dust off my classical guitar…
@Bruce Your message from the guitar gods blew me away. Of course don't give up! Classical guitar is more than electrifying. So many beautiful chords, and now one more.
@Bruce I do have a 12-string, but mostly for playing Rush or Led Zep, so classical-ish at best. My personal challenge was "She's Only Seventeen" by Winger, which opens with a barre chord and pull-offs with the pinky finger.
@Bruce Reminds me of my attempt to do classical guitar. I never got very good, but I did enjoy trying to learn what the masters made look so easy. Huge respect for anyone with the courage to attempt it.
Gotta say, as a Thursday curmudgeon, that this was as good as they get. Very clever construction, tricky cluing, and unknowns ultimately solvable from the crosses.
I decided not to worry about those pesky little asterisks and just go with the crosses if I got stuck and do what Simon sez. He never let me down, and when the puzzle was almost done, I got it. I don't know whether this is the sign of a great puzzle, or an easy one. I think I'll go with the former. I'm seeing some IBEENHADs, but I don't AGREE (except for maybe ZORK). Lots of skill to make it all work, and I wasn't even aware of where it was going until I got there. Thank you, Mr. Siegel. Come back soon.
Brilliant puzzle. More yo-yo than so-so and definitely not no-no. My main takeaway: how on earth do you think of words that go up and down? My personal flub: I got stuck on ZING, thinking it was SING, a bit of British Englishing.
Arrgh! She were a rum 'un, she were! Like the waves and tides, this one has it's ups and downs. But I lashed meself to me desk and rode out the storm, barely avoiding a grounding or two. Arrgh!
As the person who gave Zork its nonsensical name back in 1987, I’d say it’s about time the game got some recognition in the New York Times.
@Marc Blank Really? That’s very cool!
@Marc Blank One of the Great Implementors has entered the chat 😎 A hearty "Hello, sailor!" to you, good sir!
@Marc Blank I owned several Infocom titles back in the day. My first was Deadline ported to the TRS-80 which I received as a Christmas present. Unfortunately I wasn't smart enough at the time to solve it (I was a teenager)
@Marc Blank Enjoyed Zork, Deadline, Ballyhoo, Nord and Bert, and Trinity. I still have the Lost Treasures of Infocom set, and I'd have to check and see if the Boxer app will let me run the games on my iMac with the latest version of MacOS. Very nice to see your appearance here!
"But what if we read it from left to right until we get to the I, and then read up until the next black square and down again?" I thought it couldn't happen, but today's offering has actually made me wish for a rebus puzzle instead. This makes nooo sense.
@Moira Oooh...disagree. Then again, I had a few cocktails before attempting this puzzle. Maybe that was just the ticket to help me see the ups and downs of this puzzle's genius. (Then again, it didn't do much for my solving time...2 minutes before over my Thursday average.)
@Moira And what if we read the revealer (assuming you didn’t figure it out already) which makes it pretty obvious that what comes up goes back down?
If you have to rely on multiple long shot answers, not just one or two, but like five answers that are obviously a stretch…that’s a bad puzzle.
@Jon & Arielle Maybe you've forgotten that Thursdays are the days where there's more to the puzzle than just the puzzle. That there are added layers, and things that have to be deciphered or mechanisms that have to be uncovered. This is definitely not a "bad" puzzle, but it is one with a trick that hasn't been seen for a while, which made it a little tougher to figure out. That's a normal occurrence for a Thursday puzzle. I enjoy having my brain challenged by something besides simply filling letters in blank squares. It engages some different brain cells that keeps the thought process energized, and that keeps this 77 year-old entertained, but also makes me do some cognitive exercise that I hope will keep me sharper as I age. I, and a lot of the other folk that comment here, anticipate the Thursday challenges, and appreciate the constructors that prepare these fiendish exercises for us.
If a fan of this puzzle and relatively new to the NYT XWord, I recommend checking out Lewis Rothlein’s (“our Lewis”) Sunday puzzle of 5/31/2020, a collaboration with Jeff Chen. All of Lewis’s puzzles are gems, so they’re all worth seeking out if you have not yet done. You can see the dates of his puzzles here: <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/Author/Lewis_Rothlein" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/Author/Lewis_Rothlein</a> (Lewis, please venmo my fee to prreppuzzlemucker. Thanks!)
I don’t know how it’s possible for the human brain to even construct a puzzle like this. Kudos to Simeon.
One of those that at first seemed imcomprehensible, then just came together. In other words, the best kind.
I liked the theme which was well constructed, but IBEENHAD? Come on!
@James Right!? We have the "I've been had" and "I was robbed" but nobody in the history of the English speaking world said, "I been had." It's not even slang or some kind of niche lingo. Very weird to me.
@Margaret I've said it before and heard it said. Always tongue in cheek. Probably heard it in a noir movie. Still hesitated at entering it.
Struggled with this one. I needed all the help Deb could give me on the theme. I always appreciate a constructor who can do something like this. Good on you, Simeon!
I'm on a three-figure streak, but this is the first puzzle that made me want to end it. Deeply upsetting every which way. Pun and ire intended.
This just felt like a chore to me. Admittedly the theme was clever but the whole thing was hard work and not in a fun way
As someone who is usually lukewarm on Thursday shenanigans, let me say this puzzle was an absolute pleasure. What a treat!
I was excited - perhaps the ‘features of some stadia’ would at last be vomitoria - but it was not to be. Oh well, another day another puzzle to have a crack at.
@Spmm I am still bitter about Spelling Bee rejecting “vomitoria” months ago. And I’m going to stay bitter. Until the end, I suppose.
I love tricky Thursdays and the more they hurt my brain the better. This was one of the better.
This is the most tedious slog ever written. The theme itself was fine and on par for a Thursday. Bunch of random titles and names serving no purpose. Icier is not even a tad clever. Zork, bitte, kirov, etoilles, tseng... "I been had" indeed. (Please use proper English next time... Thanks!) What an absolute waste of time.
"This is the most tedious slog ever written." Michael, Don't be too hard on yourself; I've read far worse comments.
@Michael Since you said BITTE, I'm guessing you didn't get the theme? I only ask as that wasn't the full answer.
Etoile is the term they use in Paris for prima. There is even a new tv show with that name.
@Mary TIl (Today I Learned)
@Mary Came here to say that too! It was one of my first clues that I entered confidently today. It’s a great show! Highly recommend (another Amy Sherman Palladino marvel)!
For me anyway, it's older and wizened. I really enjoyed this. I remember enjoying the similar puzzle by Jeff Chen and our Lewis. The major difference is that in this one the acrosses are sensical words unlike in the older one. (I blame Jeff Chen.)(Unless he reads these comments.) My smart TV has a Tinder profile as well as a much healthier financial profile than I have. I blame my failed business, selling a hybrid of a zebra and a fork called, well, you can guess. Totally random question, is anybody interested in buying 10,000 striped forks that can sleep standing up?
@ad absurdum *financial portfolio From now on I'm letting my smart TV write my comments.
@ad absurdum My so-called smart TV keeps telling me I should watch "Two Broke Girls." No basis for this whatsoever.