There are multiple reasons why I loved this puzzle. (Math was a factor.)
@Mike There are a number of ways I could zero in on to equal a proof of why it ............ 🟰🟰🟰🟰🟰🟰🟰🟰🟰🟰 <---Emu fencing.
@Mike YOU ARE NUMBER ONE!
@Mike I was having trouble at first, but then I decided to divide and conquer -- it just added up. Emus -- I was happy when I did this -- me comment is not a cross product.
Those of you who thought “the math was hard” should examine your number trauma. 3x3=9 is hardly math. Also: it’s a puzzle, so it’s puzzling. If it made you puzzled it’s doing its job. This was fresh and fun!
@Kate Tani Nope, wrong, it's a word puzzle. Cross-word. Numbers and multiplication grids have no place in a crossword. There are plenty of number puzzles for those who enjoy them. This is supposed to be a crossword puzzle. Letters. Words. Language. Human endeavors. Thoughts. The math wasn't "hard". It just didn't belong in a word puzzle. ____________________ Jesse Goldberg 8/28/2024 for Puzzle of the Decade
@B I’d like to believe that the NYT solving public can handle basic factoring, so I assume this is an objection on principle. I guess I can see how this is the thin edge of the wedge, and our last guaranteed number-free sanctuary is under threat. But I’m someone that doesn’t mind reasonable gray zones if they lead to creative puzzles!
Now, that's what I call a Times crossword! Good times were had by all. This was very high product quality from the constructor and the editors.
Come on, people. You're highly educated people doing a mentally challenging hobby. Multiplication of single digit numbers is not "math", it's basic (numerical) literacy. It would be like people studying mathematics complaining that they are expected to know how to read.
@Turing I'm not highly educated! Dropped out of college twice. It turns out a fancy degree is not needed to memorize multiplication tables. Go figure.
@Katie the problem wasn’t the math, it’s that if you don’t know the phrase there is no way to deduce it. I don’t know how many pences are in a pound and nintendos have come in 8, 16, 32, and 64. Impossible, so I would have to brute force the numbers cube.
Numbers – and words – fail me in describing what an unpleasant solve this was.
(Across): length of pole some solvers wouldn’t touch this kind of puzzle with (Across): how many of this kind of puzzle other solvers might feel you could get for a dime (Down): the number of minutes of fame you might get from helping your kid with their multiplication facts (Down): which ball the math-phobic solvers might be behind when they saw what was going on here 5 x 2 x x 3 x 4 As for me, I loved it! Using the crosses still works great for numbers.
CLM, Brava! Excellent products. #### #### #### ####
@Cat Lady Margaret LOL, great comment! I knew the answers but filled in the full number, like 16 and 21 and I realized something was wrong but it didn’t bother me a bit. The puzzle is a bit like Sudoku, which I tried once. I enjoyed the rest of the puzzle though!
Trying again to break through the emu filter... Cat Lady Margaret, Brava! Fine Products! Adding more meaningless but apparently necessary filler to this reply. Emus should not multiply around here.
I'm not even done yet but I'm LOVING this so much I wanted to come shout my joy. I'm feeling very *product*ive so far. Fantastic puzzle!
This one's on my short list for favorite crossword of all time! I almost came to comment early out of excitement but didn't want to accidentally spoil the puzzle for myself. No doubt the gimmick won't resonate with all, but congrats to Chandi and Matthew for a unique concept and rock-solid execution!
I really really hate this puzzle.
What a feat of construction! I'm in awe. I'm also on CLOUD 3×3. Words + math = joy joy joy Thank you, Chandi and Mathew for this stellar puzzle!
@sotto voce thank you for solving!
On Thursdays, Sundays, and even Wednesdays, surprises show up – words outside the grid, symbols, strange looking words, diagonal answers, and so on – and for me, these are treats. They call for my brain to ad lib, to crack riddles, to hunt for the elusive, and when that aha ding comes, it is stellar. Bringing the unexpected from time to time – as in today’s puzzle – is a vital strand of what makes the Times puzzle excellent and fresh, what keeps me coming back. Bravo and thank you, editors, and please keep tapping at the edge!
This was a fun puzzle. In the beginning I was just putting the numbers in, thinking to myself "We really did not need the hint since these are just rebus like squares." Then the numbers did not match up. I got to a point if I was remembering the right number to the answers. 12 Gun Salute? Sweet 28? Then of course I figured out the multiplication theme. Really fun puzzle. Almost like a crossword with a bit of Sudoko-ish thinking mixed in.
@BrianQ Agreed. Once I got that first cluster, the rest were a breeze. Momentarily tripped up by forgetting the former PAC-10 is now the PAC-12. The math wasn't mathin'. 😆
@BrianQ Ha ha, I went through the same process of second guessing myself, and ended up asking my husband how many are in a __ gun salute? How many Winks is it when you sleep? Very happy when I got the trick.
Math was straightforward but the cluing was not. For example, SAMBAL is an Indian paste (reasonable close to a stew) and many Christmas ornaments are LED (those that light up). And lots of names I didn't know even after I filled them in, so no good for checking: Hanif? Rorem?
Lou, Close but no cigar. Sambal is an Indonesian chili sauce, not a Lentil-based stew from India. Not sure what you mean by "no good for checking" after you filled them in. I entered Hanif in search (after filling from crosses) and the writer in the clue was the first hit. I'm quite sure Rorem will quickly turn up Ned. ###
@Lou Scheffer I had SAMBAL/LED for the longest time and was sure there was an error in my math squares
All this time I thought we were working on crossWORD puzzles. Between Sudoku and Kenken, NYT has enough number puzzles without infringing on the crossWORD puzzle.
@Eddie Couldn't agree more. Finished the puzzle without the "number" squares. Saw the gimmick quickly, but just couldn't bring myself to put numbers in a crossword puzzle.
@Eddie The NYT retired Ken Ken a while ago, alas. And Sudoku is a logic puzzle -- whether it is numbers, symbols, or letters, it doesn't matter for the form of the game. So, there are no number puzzles in the NYT, which is not enough!
@Ash For those of us who still subscribe to the print version of NYT. there are at least two Ken-Ken puzzles every day. All of the Sudoku puzzles in NYT use numbers not letters or symbols. So, I humbly disagree with your comment.
I was told there'd be no lentil-based stews. AH! OY! MATEY, I had a lot of trouble with this one. Good trouble. Some people here are saying sudokus don't use math, but they rely heavily on logic, which is a branch of math. I think ergo sum math is involved.
@ad absurdum Logic isn't a branch of math -- it's an area of philosophy. It's the form or principles of rational thinking in general. Were you to take a logic course, it would almost always be taught by a philosopher.
This theme is not only fun, but impressive. Chandi and Matthew had to come up with six pairs of common phrases involving numbers, each pair being of the same letter count, for symmetry. On top of that, the numbers had to work across and down. Just getting that far, IMO, is wow-worthy. But then they added a stellar revealer in TIMES SQUARE, not to mention an uber-witty title in “Product Integration”. Props, props, props, you two, on all that! Scanning the filled-in grid, I kept running into serendipitous rhymes: EMEND / YENNED TIMES SQUARE / MARIE CLAIRE HAILS / WAILS / FAKE NAILS NYU / LGBTQ BOTTOM UP / TO GO CUP IS IT TRUE / ESPNU LOTUS TREE / DELEGATEE / UNITY FINANCIAL AID / SUEDE Speaking of serendipity, it was sweet to see SHOW up, and a side STEP, and to run into J.K. Simmons. Altogether a most enjoyable outing. Thank you greatly, Chandi and Matthew, for making this -- bravo!
this puzzle was AMAZING. I am terrible at rebus and theme puzzles, and as a foreigner i didn't know more than half of the answers, but was able to suss out everything because of the clever clueing. the only thing i didn't get was DOA ( i had DOi) and HEWS (i had HEmS), as they were crossing some pretty obscure words (to me). Even though i had to reveal puzzle for those, it was still an enjoyable experience!
@Mr T What a great attitude! Thank you for this really polite and lovely post. Class act.
Not for me. If I want number puzzles I'll play Sodoku.
@Juli Sudoku is not really a number puzzle, since you never use any number properties or operations. You could replace the numbers with letters A through I or nine different types of fruit or nine country flags and it would work just as well. A number puzzle is, for example, Kakuro.
Brilliant, I loved it. Yes, it took longer than usual but Sundays haven’t been challenging in years. And this wasn’t math; it was elementary school level arithmetic.
@Jersey Girl I agree with you on both counts – that this was a brilliant puzzle, and that it was very basic multiplication. That said, and after reading all the negative comments, it's come to me that maybe the problem lies not in "math" per se, but in the difficulty that some people have in applying logic to numbers, given that this was required in placing the digits in the correct order. Whereas these same solvers have no problem using logic to fill in words on a grid, they freeze up if it's numbers in front of them. I theorize that it's through no fault of their own, but perhaps due to their personal experiences in learning math and whether or not they were patiently helped or made to feel inadequate, the effects of which will last a lifetime.
This one was, for me, an average ruiner. Not because of the puzzle per se, but rather the circumstances surrounding my solve. There was a lot of commotion and drama going on in the house while I was trying to solve. As a result, I didn’t see exactly what needed to be done with the numbers until everything else was finished. One problem for me was that in addition to the numbers, there were some, shall we say, Naticky crosses, at least for me, though the issue wasn’t two proper names. One was ARI and SAMBAR; another was JK SIMMONS and AWAKE (AWARE was possible, too,) Although this was strictly because of my own knowledge gaps, it was odd because it happened not once but twice in the same puzzle. I don’t remember the last time that happened to me. But as always, I stuck with it long enough to get everything working at the same time, and all was good.
@Steve L As I live and breathe, Steve L using the term "naticky"? Seriously though, I admire an experienced solver such as yourself admitting to (occasional) struggles with these puzzles 👍🏾
Steve, I hope the commotion and drama was eventually resolved peacefully. #####
Nice to have some numbers in the grid today, as this week we celebrate (or bemoan) the 70th anniversary of numbers in the grid in the New York Times Crossword. <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=9/6/1954" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=9/6/1954</a> #####
@Barry Ancona [People of Indochina] ANNAMESE? Imagine the reaction to that in a contemporary puzzle!
I have been doing the NYT puzzle for 30 years and I can't remember a more annoying weekend than yesterday and today. I just look up all the proper nouns now, and most rebus puzzles just bore me as they almost always have that "anything for my little gimmick" constructor-googled fill.
The numbers thing was fun, but way, way too many obscure names.
@Anthony I counted Vic Dickenson, Hanif Abdurraqib, Ari Aster, JK Simmons, Stan Wawrinka, Hilton Als, James Ensor, Amy Adams, Ned Rorem, Jon Rahm. Of these ten, Amy was easy and JK I at least should have known immediately. The rest could be completely made up for all I know. Bad puzzle to lean so heavily on “who dat?”s IMHO.
@Anthony I must live in a cave. I never heard of ANY of the people in this puzzle. Admittedly, I don't have cable or satellite TV, so that leaves me in the dark.
I’ve never commented before, but after reading so many complaints I just wanted to go on record as saying this was one of my favorites! I come here to be challenged and that’s exactly what I got. Thank you!
I always blame myself (rather than the puzzle) when it's about math or rappers' names.
@Liz B Thank you for being a reasonable person. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and it's not the puzzles fault when it points them out.
I went to a Latin mass, but I couldn't make CENSE of it. (Sorry.)
I was told there’d be no math! Took me longer than it should have to figure the multiplication aspect, so the numeric squares had me puzzled trying to make them work in both directions. Eventually though, thanks to the revealer, the tidy, clever solution hit me. Why the multiplication signs in the squares didn’t tip me off I don’t know, but I’ll chalk it up to the lateness of the hour. A nice change of pace. For the table in the high school cafeteria I first tried jerks, and thought it was the best clue ever. Of course it turned out to be JOCKS, which made perfect sense and was less snarky.
We loved it. A lot of fun, and cleverness. Thank you, Chandi Deitmer and Matthew Stock.
Put me down as one of the people who loved the math gimmick and thought the number clues were all really fun, but there’s so much weird obscure-to-me fill in this that the puzzle in unsolvable — almost as bad as yesterday’s. I’ve gone from my longest ever winning streak to a two day losing streak. Tough weekend!
@Lauchlin I have to agree. I farmed the math out to my math whiz teen as the answers (she didn’t know things like 21-gun salute) and she texted back the digits from the living room faster than I could keep up. She also said POPPYSEED as an answer for the source of the sleep-inducing narcotic in the Odyssey. But, even with the help, the rest of the puzzle was unsolvable. Not fun. I don’t like fill like ERS, for “stumbling sounds.” How is that better than mms, which is what I thought of when no actual words came to mind? PFFT!
@Lauchlin I feel redeemed... having had the exact experience. I was so close to solving yesterday's puzzle. Today the numbers were trivial but the obscure flu hit me today...
I mean, it's always cool when a new constructor makes a puzzle, but why can't we keep the crossword to, I don't know, words, and leave the numbers to Sudoku?
James, I noted this earlier, but it bears repeating. This week is the 70th anniversary of numbers appearing in The New York Times Crossword. <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=9/6/1954" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=9/6/1954</a> #####
@James Numbers are just symbols for words and here the words are parts of common phrases. But the math—it smote me.
I had a blast with this one! Luckily I'm as much a math nerd as I am a word nerd. Thrilled to see one of my favorite actors at 54 Across. Not only a stage legend, Oscar winner, and insurance pitchman, but the portrayer of TWO comic book second bananas on film: J. Jonah Jameson and Commissioner James Gordon.
@James B Just watched 54A play Milton Berle, he is very versatile
I believe these types of puzzles are called crossWORDS. Crossings of numbers seem to belong to a different genre.
@Jon Mark and what genre is that? I'd like to look for more of these :)
I’ve been doing the NYT crossword for 50 years. I love the rebus puzzles, and tricks don’t fluster me. But I knew all the answers here and still can’t figure out this multiplication thing. I’m not very happy about it! This isn’t really a word puzzle.
When you’re an Indian, living in India, and struggle to crack 12A because you assume “no way Americans would know about that dish” I kept inputting DAL in the last three alphabets, only to be proved wrong.
I love sitting back on Sunday and leisurely doing the Sunday puzzle. But this one was anything but leisurely! I tried putting digits in the squares. I tried spelling out the numbers as a rebus. Nothing worked. Some folks may think this puzzle was fun, but for me it was a big headache! Please save the tricky ones for Thursdays. At least on that day I kind of expect something weird. Save the number puzzles for Sudoku, and give me a normal, challenging Sunday puzzle. Please.
Well, that was different and clever. Thank you, Chandi and Matthew. I hope you can take the heat because if there's one thing people don't like around here, it's "different". I think the only thing that's going to keep the complants about YENNED down today is the fact that there are *gasp* numbers. Pretty basic arithmetic that's needed to calculate tips and discounts, so I'm not sure how people get by without it.
So much complaining in these comments, did you guys not do multiplication tables in 3rd grade? I thought the theme was a lot of fun!
@Dandelion When I did multipliaction tables in 3rd grade, they showed us where to put which each multiplicand, multiplier, and product. In this delightful multicar collision, working out the implicit counterclockwise bias was substantial less obvious than anything covered in my particular third grade classes. The thing I enjoyed most about this puzzle is The Editors right now reading all these comments, looking at the vast heaving sea of submissions for future puzzles spreading out to the horizon before them and saying to one another, "let's not do *that* again!" Just imagining that conversation brightens my morning.
Seems I get to be the first to whine, "I was told there'd be no math." That was disproved quite a while ago. Lots of trivia that helped me out, but I can see it giving many trouble. Between Saturday and Sunday, the crossword crew is really making us labor. Time for some chocolate. No cup of smug. If you don't have Show Overlays turned on in the app, you won't see the tiny multiplication symbols.
@Vaer Sheesh, already so many have posted how much they dislike the puzzle because numbers were involved, I feel the need to clarify that I was joking about whining. I enjoyed it.
Welp, if PhysicsDaughter hadn't been here, I'd still be out to sea in a leaky dinghy. I was using the magnifying glass, but still did not discern the wee little tiny Xes...so she steered me aright. It was puzzle-fun figuring out which arrangement of multiplicands to use. Still, the presence of Nintendo, super-heroes, and football made for some gruesome roadblocks (only overcome thanks toPhysDau, who however could not resist saying, "Well, if you had let us have Nintendo...." ...so there's that.) LOTUS TREE??? When did LOTUS become a tree instead of a plant of the genus Nelumbo, mostly loating around being beautiful? We eat lentils quite often, so I know 'dal,' but not SAMBAR. But it sounds delish!
@Mean Old Lady That was supposed to be 'floating.' My R hand/arm are hurting thanks to a set-back (okay, I got a cart at WalMart and pushed it around, and it was a little too much. PFFT!)
@Mean Old Lady “If you had let us have Nintendo” . . . priceless! The only bit of Shakespeare my kids ever memorized was the one I quoted the most: “How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless child.”
I love math problems (although I’ve never been able to get the hang of Sudoku), and I loved this puzzle! So original, so clever. I give it a perfect 5 x 2.
Easy enough clues, but the Impenetrable number-multiplication theme was far beyond my poor powers.. A more helpful theme-helper answer than 121 across would have been nice, perhaps something involving the word "factors." Without that, this puzzle closely approaches the impossible.
David, 131 Across -- TIMES SQUARE -- seemed like a fine revealer. Did you also see -- PRODUCT INTEGRATION -- the title of the puzzle? Did your solving format have multiplication symbols in the squares? I found it all rather clear. (I read the 131A clue *after* filling in the times squares.)
@David I agree. Solving this on mobile was pretty rough. I appreciate the concept and execution, but the multiplication symbols weren't obvious and the title isn't visible while solving. Not that it meant anything to me anyway! I initially thought they were going to be clocks, based on the revealer answer! On a grid this dense, it's always hard to track down where stray errors could be. The opaque (to me) mechanism made that part of the solve much, much longer than usual.
@AZ First thing to do on Sunday is to hit the 'i' button -- you'll get the puzzle title, which invariably provides the key to unlocking the puzzle theme. Saves countless minutes of aggravation.
Loved this one though it took me longer than usual. Some of these comments are so funny. People really get annoyed! By MATH! I have never understood Suduko (sp?) but I may go and try it now -- thanks to some of the things written here. Went to college in DC in the Dark Ages and attended the National Cathedral often. And heard Ned Rorem's music (also often). Besides writing music (worth checking out), he wrote at least one amazing memoir (also worth checking out). Interesting guy. I have never attempted a Friday or Saturday puzzle. Kudos to those of you who do.
@Melissa Sutherland If you're looking for math, you may be disappointed by sudoku, there's actually no math involved.
@Melissa Sutherland The numbers are placeholders. But it's a fun game.
A SWEET homage to a SOOTY street corner! Last TIMES I checked, numbers are words too... And if I'm being honest the militancy of the antimath brigade has me a little concerned that their dislike of basic multiplication is, more than anything else, a symptom of a greater deficiency in our education system. My peeve: when a cashier has to check their screen to figure out change for a dollar.
JB, No surprise on your peeve. Cashiers these days rarely handle cash. do emus swipe or tap?
@JB Just wait until the clerk in a paint store asks, "Which is bigger, a pint or a quart?" DHubby had to do CPR on me...
Why does the Puzzle Info section say "Each square in the shaded square is to be filled with a numerical digit"? Not only does it directly tell you that these answers include numbers, but it holds your hand by telling you the correct character set just in case you might try alpha chars first... Please - let the solver figure that out along the way! I understand that the NYT team wants to make these more accessible to a wider audience, but literally having the theme spoiled in the puzzle info is going too far. The time for a DAILY two-tiered difficulty system is long overdue. An admittedly average player like myself shouldn't be consistently finishing Saturdays and Sundays in less than 30 minutes. I don't think I'm the only person who gets relaxation and enjoyment from getting unstuck finally having that AHA theme-busting moment. There are also those users who appreciate the timed challenge aspect more. Let's have separate puzzles tailored for each group every day! Then there could be double the accepted submissions as well.
@Matt M. Saturday's tough unthemed puzzle by Sam Ezersky actually took me a minute longer than today's. The balance between challenging and fun is tough to nail, but I think the constructors and editors do an admirable job of it.
Loved this puzzle so much. The only thing I’m sad about is that the note to put in numbers spoiled it to me when I went to see the puzzle title. Also, PAC34 crossing 37GUNSALUTE completely stumped me, an a non-American solver, I had to look it up. The rest of the fill was awesome and this will forever be my favourite way to clue DANTE, 5x2/5x2!!
Ugg is not an Australian brand. The brand UGG in the US is an American brand. Ugg boots are a type of footwear in Australia. Not a brand. The word Ugg can't be copyrighted in Australia.
I got to a section with numbers and gave up, please keep these stupid gimmicks to Thursday. Why do all of these NYT puzzle authors have to prove how clever they are instead of creating interesting puzzles?
@Chris it’s usually my Sunday treat, but not today, annoyingly. I look forward to the Sunday crossWord puzzle. This was not it.
@Chris They do it especially to torture YOU. They worked tirelessly to target you, so you must have done something seriously distressing to bring this upon yourself and all your fellow solvers. I'm glad to know whom to blame!
@Chris “Why do all of these NYT puzzle authors have to prove how clever they are instead of creating interesting puzzles?” People truly occupy different realities in this comments section! It’s so strange to me how a strong contingent of commenters seem to view the NYT crossword universe through a perspective in which constructors are constantly trying to “prove how clever they are”, and many of the regular commenters are always bragging and/or trying to project snobbery when they talk about puzzles. Has it really not occurred to you that the reason the NYT continues to publish puzzles with the sort of gimmickry seen in today’s, and relatively challenging clueing like in yesterday’s (albeit quite infrequently of late), is that crossword puzzle enthusiasts (to include constructors and the editor) *truly enjoy* those kinds of puzzles?
One of the funnest puzzles! Thank you to the clever constructors! I see a lot of grievances from others who don’t warm up to numbers. These are truly simple multiplications and shouldn’t merit such uproar.
That was lame. After spelling out the numbers it failed. There should not be numbers in a word puzzle. This is not sudoku. It’s a “cross word”. The title says it all. Cross “word”. At the very least it should have accepted the the “words” spelt out. Lame.
I do crosswords cause I like words, not numbers. This was a no go for me.