To the creators, congratulations on creating a very challenging Sunday puzzle. For this user, however, it made for quite an unpleasant solving experience.
One of the worst Sundays in recent history. A slog the ENTIRE time. At no point was any fun to be had. You can do better, NYT.
@Ben Blackwell I had fun, and I'll bet lots of others did, too. This was just a hard theme, and maybe it was a bit beyond your current abilities. Hopefully, the next one will be better **for you**. I think the NYT did just fine.
There is a particular kind of puzzle that I loathe, despise, detest, and really don't like much—one that is peppered with ho hum fills used to support multiple "See ----- across" fills. I can live with a few, but this one is really over the top. Since I'm in a vile mood, I might as well pack it in for a while and watch the evening news.
@dutchiris I should have said ALREADY in a bad mood. The news always does that all by itself these days.
@dutchiris, Not a big fan of the “See ………. across” clues either. After running into the first two, the next thing I did was to scan ahead to see how many I would be dealing with. SIX??!? Not happy. I didn’t appreciate the challenge, and effort that went into making the grid. Not my favorite style but chacun à son goût.
There was something really unenjoyable about this puzzle’s gimmick. Gatech? For the first time ever, I felt cheated by a NYT crossword.
@David Westrup Think the university, Georgia Tech
@Nora Rifon just to add, this is the first sunday puzzle that I gave up on. And I gave up early on.
My longest streak ever was 622 days. Then on a random Wednesday in September 2024, I solved the puzzle and got... a blue Congratulations message. What!?! No no no no no! I had forgotten to do the Tuesday puzzle. 😫 Well needless to say I resolved to never let that happen again. And today I broke my 622 day streak. Yay! 😊 [In case anyone cares, I never look anything up while solving but once in a blue moon I'll peek here or at the dictionary if I have a typo at the end and am completely stuck] Thanks for helping me celebrate 🥳
@Lpr I so glad that some people enjoy the streaks. I did for a minute, and then I didn't anymore. For me, the dread in the pit of my stomach of losing the streak just becomes overwhelming. Maybe the thing is I love streaks enough to never want to lose one, which almost be definition has to happen.
This was one of the best Sunday puzzles we've had for ages - absolutely loved the challenge and the fact that there was no need to look up any obscure facts. Thank you Adam and Simeon.
@Susan, I liked the puzzle and thought the theme was great, but I have to say, as a relative beginner, that I had to look up more obscure (to me) facts than in a typical Sunday! PANANG / KASBAH / GSIX (the latter seems obvious in hindsight, but I have a blind spot for partially expanded acronyms); SOMALI / SHILOH / MOTTST; EUGENE; MORAYS (I had "DORAYS" crossing NOD, which seemed plausible enough). Maybe others I forget.
@Susan I found this to be filled to the brim with obscure facts.
Very tricky Sunday. It took me 2:20:32 with no lookups. It was hard work, but hey, considering the appalling state of affairs we are now experiencing, this is exactly the kind of puzzle that helps me transcend the awfulness. Thank you sir, may I have another?
@Laura Stratton. You like I are one of those people who usually sticks with it no matter how long it takes. I was at over two hours and decided I needed some help. So good for you!
I'd like the editors to think about the pleasure of the solvers rather than the cleverness of the constructors. I can respect the work that went into this while still sadly sharing that this was a slog beginning to end.
@Roberta I love that the editors included this puzzle. It was not a slog for me, especially compared to the last two puzzles. To each their own
Well, after Saturday’s misery, I’m going to stick my neck out and say i quite liked this one. As a Brit i say “pudding” for dessert but i concede that many of my compatriots would say AFTERS. Not my first choice, but I’ll take it. What’s more, I don’t know about “words” like GATECH, and I’m not familiar with THE NEA or SHASTA or KSU or ANGI. But… i finished it in 33:20! I even guessed ATBATS without a moment’s hesitation! So yay!
@Petrol I'm sure you know that in the US, "pudding" refers to a specific kind of dessert, a smooth, non-frozen custard that can come in various flavors, including vanilla, chocolate, pistachio, butterscotch, etc. We find it A BIT ODD to refer to any dessert as a "pudding."
This has been a weekend of some quite difficult puzzles. I have loved it! Some other solvers, not so much. My mother, of blessed memory, who was but a high school graduate, only got the NYT on Sundays, and so did only the Sunday puzzle. I'd find the partially completed puzzle sitting on the hamper in the bathroom throughout most of the early week. (I guess she solved when no one was bothering her.) I thought it quite impressive that she did the NYT puzzle at all, so I found it not A BIT ODD that she worked on it in bits and pieces. I took up the habit right out of college, and not to toot my horn too much, but I've become a much better solver than she ever was. So I offer this suggestion to those who had a hard time on this puzzle and gave up, or who are considering giving up. Take your time. Put the puzzle down and walk away. Literally, take a walk. Or do some chores. Or have family time. Let your mind clear. Go back to the puzzle later. You'll be surprised what now will jump out at you. Repeat as necessary. Just because there's a new puzzle out tomorrow--one that you can probably polish off in minutes--you don't have to give up on this one. And so what if you don't finish before Thursday? Finishing four days late is much more satisfying that giving up by 10 pm Sat. night and moving on.
@Steve L -- My mother also did the Sunday Times puzzle and she did not have the opportunity to finish high school either. My wordsmithing, my literary chops--I thank her for all that. And I do these puzzles in her memory.
@Steve L “who was but a high school graduate” is one of the most condescending, elitist phrases I’ve ever read. Did your mother knew you looked down on her for being a lowly high school graduate? After looking at some of your other comments, your intellectual self-righteousness is unbecoming and smug.
If Sunday puzzles are supposed to be embiggened Wednesday puzzles, this was far too difficult. This was more like a hard Saturday puzzle.
@Dave K. I think that while Sunday puzzles are often described as oversized Wednesdays, they can really be anything we encounter on the other days of the week. Since Sunday is the only day that gets a larger grid, I like that it can offer something for everyone. I’d put today’s puzzle at about the level of a tough Thursday. As a Thursday fan, I found it a delight. It was chewier than most Thursdays in a very satisfying way, and exactly the kind of puzzle I needed to take my mind off an especially engaging week.
@Dave K. I always thought of Sundays as embiggened Thursdays, not Wednesdays, because Sundays tend to have the same sorts of gimmicks seen on Thursdays, such as rebuses, words that change direction, etc.
Oh, well, I love these two constructors, who excel at entertaining with humor, artistry, skill, and often deviousness. So, I was not surprised at my marvelous “Hah!” when I saw the theme’s gimmick; nor was I surprised at the fun type of thinking needed to crack the remaining theme answers. But the pièce de résistance came upon reading the constructors’ notes. Adam and Simeon were not daunted when the computer spit out 40,000 theme answer possibilities. Many, I’m guessing, would have tossed the idea entirely at that juncture, or just randomly picked answers that worked. But no, they narrowed the list to the cream, then narrowed it further to the cream of the cream. That’s a ton of work in the pursuit of excellence. And a ton more devoted to high-quality cluing and grid design. Again, I’m not surprised by it, knowing your work, Adam and Simeon. Thank you for what you do for Crosslandia, and for a most splendid outing today!
@Lewis for me, if they use a computer to build it I don't feel bad using one to solve it. All in all a great puzzle. Worth it, as far as I'm concerned.
@Lewis Not much creativity involved in reading through another's work and picking out parts to publish under one's own name. We used to have a word for that.
@Lewis Just dropping in to say how much your gracious and positive comments are appreciated. I happened to enjoy this puzzle, and am glad to know about the constructors’ collaborative effort. But I especially value your comments, always respectful and kind.
@Lewis Good comments, as usual. I got the theme early and it helped with solving those beautiful 1-2 combinations. I met the late, great Merle Reagle several times here in Tucson, and I'm sure he would have loved this one. His xwords were a pleasure to solve. There's a lot of his whimsy in this Will Shortz era. BTW I lived in Mr. Shortz's hometown, Crawfordsville, as a child.
I don’t understand the hate. This was a lot of fun.
EB, I'm guessing that after challenging Friday and Saturday puzzles, some folks are upset about having to work a bit to do a Sunday.
@EB Some people only like their puzzles if they're not too puzzling.
@EB lots of people want to be the kind of person who does the NYT crossword but don’t want to develop the kind of skills required.
This was a poor puzzle. Soli? Gatech? My auto correct won’t even let me type these so-called words. Come on guys. Two out of three is a nice idea, but poorly done.
@Linda Bernstein, I don't know about your autocorrect, but SOLI is a dictionary word, and not too obscure in my opinion. It's the plural of SOLO, which is a very common word.
@Linda Bernstein And GATECH is actually GA (Georgia) TECH. Your autocorrect isn't that smart.
Definitely not in my wheelhouse. Despite knowing a fair amount of the clues: KASBAH, PHOEBE, CASABLANCA were delightful gimmes, the theme just felt clunky and contrived. I got it, but I didn’t ’get’ it. The new Wordplay layout is driving me insane. What was wrong with the old one?? Not being able to toggle between crossword, Wordplay column and comments really reduces the enjoyment.
@Helen Wright totally agree, hate the new layout. But I hate change.
@Helen Wright for real. Someone says something like they “18A the 53D” and I can no longer go back and see what they’re talking about. I can’t even go back to the grid right now to see what I might have inadvertently come up with.
Dear editors. Please make the Info link open the NYT app and not stay within the games app. Thank you mucho.
Or of that's not possible, lovely NYT games crew, please explain?
@JoPa Chiming in to agree. It was much better when I could flip between the column in one tab and the completed puzzle in the other.
@JoPa no thanks. I don’t want the NYT App
@JoPa mine opens in the NYT app when I click on the info link from the games app. Not sure why it’s different for some people?
@JoPa I’d prefer to have the link open in the device’s web browser. I don’t use the NYT app & would rather not have to download it. Regardless, it the link to Wordplay needs to stop opening in the app.
A sloppy puzzle filled with lazy clues. Letters missing from "---ightl-" was quite the nadir.
@C Commenters always lose my respect when they talk about "lazy clues" or "lazy constructors." The fact that you didn't like a clue or an answer doesn't mean anyone was lazy. And I for one found that clue and answer to be cleverly different. Remember that your experience is just one person's experience, and it (1) is not representative of everyone's, and (2) has nothing to do with how hard the constructor(s) worked on creating the puzzle.
C, I don't think you understood the "letters missing from" clue. Whether you liked it or not, it was hardly lazy.
@C I could make a joke that involved your suggestion that this was “sloppy” and the theme of “seconds”; not sure if the emus would let it through and frankly not sure if I’d want them to.
@C Whatever you want to say about this puzzle or its constructors it’s certainly not sloppy or lazy. And the point of the clue is that SPRY means the same as SPRIGHTLY and has the same letters around it. That’s a clever interesting observation and in my opinion makes for a good clue. You might debate whether it’s too easy or a gimme or whatever, but it was deliberate and that doesn’t make it sloppy or lazy
@C I was puzzled by that one at first too. Spry and sprightly mean about the same thing, so it is indeed "apt",
I’m going to be a bit more reactive and circumspect with my comments today and see what you all think. I will say I enjoyed it and found it quite challenging, both from a theme standpoint and the rest of the clues. Still, it was very obvious these were all computer generated. I’m not at all against that in theory. But I think I would have sacrificed the intricacy of some of these for some friendlier choices. GATECH? CHIAS/CHIASMUS? SOLI? TODDLES? Yes they are all legitimate crossword entries, potentially, just I would have preferred to see something a little more…human, somehow? Also some of the clues, I won’t enumerate them, just seemed a little off in odd ways. Anyway, I don’t want to be too much of a downer on this, you have my MADRESPECT for creating it and appreciated the unusually high challenge for a Sunday which is refreshing. But now I will sit back and hear what the peanut gallery has to say.
SP, Per the Constructor Notes, the computer spit out 40,000 themers; you didn't like some the two humans selected.
@SP completely agree. If among the 40k potential themers the program generated these were among the best options, maybe they should have moved on to a new idea.
@SP I think you're a constructor, and I have learned that virtually all constructors use computers to some degree. No shade, I'm curious how it's obviously computer generated, or which aspects of it were computer generated/non-human. I will say that I'm unlikely to remember CHIASMUS but I was happy to learn of it; the example I saw was JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." In the past few days the answer SERAPHS led to some discussion of pluralizing words imported from other languages, and my musical background says SOLI is more than acceptable. And I've always liked the verb TODDLE, but TIL that it specifically means to walk with short unsteady steps, and it is the verb from which the term TODDLEr is derived. Since I've most often heard it in terms of TODDLing off to bed, I wonder if it suggests a few drinks were involved. ;)
I hated Saturday’s puzzle. I hated this one more. It’s not that I mind a difficult solve or obscure clues. I just want a puzzle with a little more… personality? Cleverness? A theme that does more than split a row into two different words? I don’t know how long this one took, but my clock says 2:35. Some of that was seconds ticking away while I comforted my dogs from thunderstorm noises. The rest of it was me just willing myself to get through it— the storm, AND the puzzle. If this is what AI brings us, I am not impressed.
@Heidi Something about you last sentence made me think of Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. His stories had a whole lot of other story ideas. One of them was that the world had evolved into a place where sεχ was just everywhere, but the earth was so biologically compromised that fresh fruit, crunchy vegetables, and the like were rare. So people would go to X-rated movie houses where the actors would very slurpily and noisily and messily go about eating all this fresh food (or what looked like fresh food) with the juices running down their chins and everyone grunting with pleasure. The climax came when everyone stopped from exhaustion, and burped. The crowds would go wild. Dunno why I'm writing this, exactly. Other than that Kurt Vonnegut was a genius and I love to write about him.
Too much of a stretch and not at all satisfying when you get it right.
Not my cup of tea.
After all the ugly battles we've fought with emus over the years, is it any wonder a group of them are known as a MOB? I can just see one of the emus now, cigarette handing out of his beak, saying "Nice little post you got there...it'd be a shame if we had to hold it up."
@Francis, Bravo!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@Francis 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 (Oh for an emoji of a smoking ratite.)
As someone who finds a way to love every puzzle, no matter the path to completion: This may've been the least amount of enjoyment I've derived from a Sunday puzzle in forever. If this was anywhere close to a daily experience, I'd have never caught the greatest bug of them all.... In a word: LAME.......
Came to the comments to see if anyone else was having the same experience I was - got the theme after a few goes round, but finding the solve to be a bit of a slog overall… Only to read the column and find myself perturbed. To what extent was this crossword created using AI? In my opinion, any crossword generated with any significant amount of AI - such as generating the theme - should be labelled as such. I come to the Times for a real challenge - to enjoy the creativity of people rather a bit smarter than me and learn new things in the process. If I were so inclined, I’m sure I could use AI to generate my own crosswords - so what do I need to pay for a subscription for? As much as possible in my life, I choose not to engage with AI generated content. The Times should label AI generated content with transparency, so readers can make informed choices.
@SM Constructors have been using computers to create word lists, specifically tailoring their search to the theme they intend to create, for years now, perhaps even decades. Practically every constructor uses computers to come up with examples that would have taken hundreds of times as long to think them up. Saying that computer use makes crossword construction bad is like saying using Excel to do accounting is somehow "cheating," and is not as good as writing in a ledger with a quill.
@SM AI is not the same thing as an algorithm. Per Merriam-Webster, an algorithm is "a procedure for solving a mathematical problem... in a finite number of steps that frequently involves repetition of an operation." Algorithms have been around for millennia: the earliest known algorithm is from a a Sumerian tablet from about 2500 BC. If you ever learned algebra, you have almost certainly learned an algorithm. What the constructors used, so far as their comment indicates, is not an LLM such as ChatGPT, but rather a simpler algorithm, possibly of their own design, which they employed for the specific task of finding theme entries. Constructors have been using algorithms like this for many years.
@SM I’ll pile on with the others. This is not AI, and not substantively different than any standard tools for creating crosswords that have been used for ages.
These were fun, from two of my faves. But I’m disappointed that neither Adam nor Simeon would report that building this theme set around WASABI was the way it developed. That was a bit odd! For half of yesterday’s commenters: here we find out the real origin of the name of that dwarf. He liked to go everywhere with a large knife, so became known as SNEESY. Later on the spelling changed.
@Cat Lady Margaret Haha made me laugh
@Cat Lady Margaret Don't make me snicker. Again, I don't trust a one liner getting through.
What a tedious puzzle. I would really l hope that constructing it was as tiresome as solving it. This was just a very bad Sunday puzzle.
What did you do? The help used to take us to a web page. Now it doesn’t. What am I missing? Switching back and forth is a pain.
@Dave Stein - Open up the Wordplay (search "Wordplay") in the main NYT app. Then you can leave the puzzle app open to the crossword.
@Dave Stein I’m currently 3 emails deep in conversation with the support bot about this, hoping for an eventual human response. I’m expecting something along the lines of “it’s not a bug, it’s a feature”. Yes, I know how to open a web page from my browser. But adding the option in the app would be so easy. Let us, in a secular and ecumenical manner, pray.
Finished it, but some very questionable clueing IMO and not a fun one for me.
I found the whole business of taking the three strings and making two successive answers to be a bit too challenging character exercise for my mind of late. I felt like I was starting out all over again anytime I clicked on anything in those feature lines, trying to remind myself what I had figured out before. Sometimes the pleasures comes in a few moments of sudden inspiration. Not this time. This time the pleasure came from having hacked through to the last square, arriving sweaty and dirty. It felt jungly to me. Crowded, claustrophobic, uncomfortable. Every time I have an inspiration and get a few letters I hope for a panoramic view, but all it does is murky the waters. (By the way, having daRk for MURK was definitely no help.) Finally I cleared out the last little patch, realized that I've been hearing about the GSIX all my life and never really thought about it, that I didn't know we were hosting the summer olympics in 2028. I bet I spent more time staring at _SA than any American anywhere would have. I guess I'm just not RAHRAH enough.
An interesting correspondence I have noticed today: a correllation between commenter names I don't recognize and negative opinions of the puzzle, the constructors and the construction. (And conversely, among the names I do recognize, mostly the opposite, with a few who are known to be newer solvers being the exception.) Newcomers, welcome; your contributions are always good for a look at the perspective of those who haven't said anything before. But do realize that it's not the puzzle's fault if you don't solve it. Some are harder than others, and some solvers like the additional challenge, so this puzzle is a special treat for those of us with a decent amount of experience. Sure, feel free to express your exasperation at your frustrating experience, but please don't blame the puzzle for that. Don't say the constructor was lazy, when what you really mean is that he did something you'd never seen before, and you didn't know what to do with it. Someone pointed out earlier that I sounded unpleasant when replying to a complainer. Maybe I was, but reading all the blame-placing is quite unpleasant to me. Think of the pitcher who says, "I can't get Ohtani out. He's a terrible hitter."
@Steve L when an unpopular puzzle drops, it’s always fun to watch the “defend at all costs!!!!” crowd find ways to invalidate the inevitable criticisms.
@Steve L This is astonishingly condescending. It's pretty clear from the comments that many of the people who found this a tedious solve a) are regular solvers, b) did actually complete it. I'm a regular solver, and I completed it - it took about an hour, and I found it largely unenjoyable. I agree that calling the setters lazy (as some unhappy commenters have done) is rude and unhelpful, but implying that commenters are befuddled newbs is equally rude and unhelpful.
@Steve L I think you are being a little harsh today. Yeah, there are always those who hate a crossword because it stumps them or has words they don’t know or themes they don’t get. But there are others who really can discern a sort of “fun factor” that is totally unrelated to the amount of challenge or experience. I count myself as one of the more experienced ones, I enjoyed this puzzle, certainly wasn’t beyond my faculties, but enjoyed it really only because of the challenge it presented, and that’s fine. But still for me it was missing some sort of je ne sais quoi fun factor that others might feel is more essential to their Sunday experience.
@Steve L as a very infrequent commenter that did not enjoy this puzzle, I find your baseball analogy telling. For some solvers, it seems, they view the constructor as an adversary-like a hitter and pitcher on opposing teams. The constructor’s goal is to get you ‘out’ through the use of obscure, inscrutable, frustrating and even specious cluing. The solver’s goal is to ‘beat’ the constructor. This may be fun for many, but it is not fun for me.
@Steve L The last thing Steve L needs is any support from me, but I'd like to chime in here in his support anyway. It's obvious that none of the various cohorts and Venn diagdrams of solvers here are highly homogenous, so it's difficult to discuss things in general terms. It's awfully easy to say something which gets the response, "Not all..." But I get his negative reaction to poop being thrown at the puzzle creators, especially those which indicate they didn't give their best effort ("were lazy") or greed-filled ("they just want more people to get the puzzle subscription, so they make them easier"). And it *really* bothers me on a debut puzzle. I would never, ever castigate a debut constructor, even with shifting the blame to the cluers. I don't always see eye-to-eye with Steve L, but he always, always, always gives me something to think about.
I enjoyed this puzzle! A bit surprised to amble into the comments section and see all this grumbling and kvetching get upvoted… but to each their own. A shade under an hour, a solid brain exercise, just what I hope to see from the NYT Sunday edition.
I might be in a minority here but I rather liked today's puzzle. Had some garbage fill here and there but most of it was just the right amount of challenging and took me close to an hour to crack, which was a nice change from last Sunday's puzzle where I was done in 20min or so. Had a nice aha moment when I figured out the theme too. Thank you to the editors and constructors for another solid Fri-Sat-Sun trio to close off the weekend.
Hated this theme. No connection between the clue parts. Just sets of words running together. I get it. Painful. The overall puzzle outside the theme was good enough.
@Alexia The connection was “two out of three.” For each of those sets, there were two clue answers formed from three individual words/phrases. When I had enough information to see the phrase “ two out of three,” I was able to go back and enter in a lot more information. So for me, it was helpful and fun
OPE, it looks like everyone hated it. This confirms my suspicion that most people simply do not want a challenge. This was a great puzzle, and I'm sad that more people didn't enjoy it. I'm so sleepy I'm basically half-dead, and I still managed to complete the puzzle and understand the theme, albeit with a lot of thought and caffeine. It was full of lively fill, such as 14D, 75A, 12A, 113D. There were a bunch of fun entries, like SONOFA, PANANG, KASBAH, and MANIFESTOS. I especially loved the clue for SOMALI. I've read some SOMALI poetry, which traditionally is memorized and spoken out loud, much like the Iliad and Odyssey back in the day. Any puzzle that name-drops EUGENE Levy is fine by me.
@Katie I love challenging puzzles and I very much disliked this puzzle. You can't make the connection "Everyone hated this puzzle" = "Most people do not want a challenge." That's not logic, it's generalizing your own experience to everyone else. Just because I disliked this puzzle and I love hard puzzles doesn't mean that this wasn't a hard puzzle. Just food for thought.
@Katie. I agree with you entirely. Every clue/answer was a joy. But then again, I'm only 76 years old, and easily amused.
loved it loved it loved it. so clever, such fun. thank you.
This is the second Sunday in a row where I have really enjoyed the puzzle-solving experience. Both were somehow both very difficult but still solvable, and a good companion to strong morning coffee and a beautify Summer day. Thanks, guys!
Whereas some solvers seem to have deemed this puzzle unappetizing, I had quite a different experience. It was a slow solve, but not at all a slog for me. It was as if time were moving gently to give me time, and it was as if the puzzle was being patient with me while I figured it out, not just the themers, but the very rich fill. Yesterday I felt I was driving on open roads, in a sports convertible with the top down, as I tackled the quadrants – not a car in sight, just me and expansive views all around. Today I felt I was driving in fresh snow, also with no traffic, but slowly, cautiously, on meandering roads, in an unknown part of the land. Each puzzle had its own appeal and the unique brush strokes of their constructors. Thank you, Adam and Simeon. The admiration and respect you have for each other comes through in your creation. And we're very lucky to have been gifted with the melding of your individual skills and talents. As for the soundtrack of this puzzle, I leave the SONATAS to be brought to you by the incomparable @Bill from Detroit, while I go with that very obvious one that spells KASBAH with a "C"... <a href="https://youtu.be/bJ9r8LMU9bQ?si=p61sLUKBudPp9IjI" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/bJ9r8LMU9bQ?si=p61sLUKBudPp9IjI</a>
@sotto voce I like your synesthetic sense of sets.
@sotto voce Loved how you expressed the feel that a puzzle gives. Today felt jungly, to me. Every time I'd get another letter or two I'd expect it all to open up in panoramic view, but not, just more leafy tangle, needing to be slashed away Over and over.
Oh my - I hated this puzzle and I usually enjoy Sundays.
I don’t understand people who complain about puzzles. It’s supposed to be a challenge, that’s what makes it worthwhile for your brain.
@Tracy K - The NYT has been trying to attract a lot of new puzzlers recently. There are a lot of new ones here, and their solving chops aren't well developed yet. They also seem to believe that if they don't get a particular clue, the problem is with the puzzle, not with them. They also seem to think this is Facebook, where everyone just dumps all over every posting they can find. They'll eventually figure out this is a higher-level place and they can't just poop all over the place. Most of them, anyway.
Fun! And a little more challenging than most Sundays
@Hector Pefo A lot more, if xwstats.com is any indication: 🌎 Global Stats Difficulty Very Hard Median Solve Time 24:55 Median Solver 24% slower ⚡17% of users solved faster than their Sunday average. 7% solved much faster (>20%) than their Sunday average. 🐢83% of users solved slower than their Sunday average. 55% solved much slower (>20%) than their Sunday average. (As of about 10:06, ET.)
Don't get all the hate. One of the most enjoyable Sundays in a while.
@Jacob If you go to <a href="https://xwstats.com/puzzles/2026-06-07" target="_blank">https://xwstats.com/puzzles/2026-06-07</a> you'll notice that it was rated Very Hard. It seems that whenever that happens, there are a ton of complaints. Coincidence? I think not.
I'll go against the grain here. I loved this puzzle! It did take me almost 2 hours with no lookups, which is double my average time. But it was very satisfying to get the six trick clues. I enjoyed the whole puzzle and did not find it a slog at all.
@VN, I also enjoyed this challenging puzzle. I was nearly ten minutes above my average but I enjoyed every single minute!
Overheard at a local health food store, store manager to stockperson: "By Hades! Didn't I tell you to put the bags of hemp hearts on the top shelf, and the chias on the one below?" Now that that's out of the way, what's all this about sonatas being "long"? Here's two examples, from opposite ends of sonatery, each clocking in at under two minutes: Scarlatti: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q969PG1i_4Q&list=RDQ969PG1i_4Q&start_radio=1" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q969PG1i_4Q&list=RDQ969PG1i_4Q&start_radio=1</a> Cage: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRHoKZRYBlY&list=RDjRHoKZRYBlY&start_radio=1" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRHoKZRYBlY&list=RDjRHoKZRYBlY&start_radio=1</a> (Both pieces have exactly the same musical form: AABB; that's not a coincidence.) You know what *can* be long? Ragas! Some performances last hours, or all night! There's something not quite right with that clue/entry pair, but I'm not sufficiently versed in Indian music to know exactly what it is. But TIL--and I kid you not--that "raga" can also mean "RED DYE"! <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%97#Sanskrit" target="_blank">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%97#Sanskrit</a> (will that post as a link, I wonder?)
@Bill Seems to me you cherry picked your examples. I'm thinking that Beethoven's and Mozart's are more like ten times as long.
@Bill I balked at the notion of sonatas being long too, but dutifully filled it in, and chalked it up to constructor’s license.
@Bill Sonatas are longer than sonatinas. I was so excited when I learned "an eight-page sonatina!" I don't remember the title or the composer, but the length became part of the name in my mind.
@AI in Pittsburgh-- Beethoven and Mozart? Seems like you apple picked your composers. Clocking in at at somewhere between 6 1/2 and 7 1/2 hours (depending on the tempi), the Sonata No. 5 "Opus Archimagicum" (1935) by Kaikhosru Sorabji is the prize-winning Watermelon of sonatas. If you missed the performance by Yi-Chung Huang in Chicago this past February, here's the YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_mnLZQLF30&list=RDH_mnLZQLF30&start_radio=1" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_mnLZQLF30&list=RDH_mnLZQLF30&start_radio=1</a> Although I think I heard a couple of wrong notes on page 335. @Lynn Ravel's Sonatina is notoriously difficult--Ravel himself didn't like playing the third movement in public.
@Bill I'll allow it but yeah it could have been better clued. generally longer than a sonatina or an etude, I'll grant them that.
I’m 2,212 puzzles into a streak, and this is the absolute worst one I’ve seen for enjoyment. I got it done, but it was an ugly slog full of deeply questionable fill. Zero stars.
@Chet, OMG. I’m only eight behind you! Glad that you made it through this one. Curious how the coming week will go. Onward!
Definitely an enjoyable challenge. It's nice to see a Sunday stretch its muscle once in a while.
Steve L. wrote: "...this puzzle is a special treat for those of us with a decent amount of experience." Well, I have more than a decent amount of experience, and this was no treat for me. I winced when I saw one of the two names of the constructors, who happens to be one of my least favorite, and I was not disabused by that opinion. Just like I light up with joy when I see someone like Robyn Weintraub's name on a puzzle, I cringe when I see the one today. I walked away several times, came back and filled in a few more answers. In the end, I finished it without help, but had no sense of accomplishment, just a big sigh that it was finally over. I didn't find the clues or the theme clever, and the theme was just annoying. Many Sundays make me laugh when I fill in theme answers. All I got from this was, okay, another one filled in.
@Times Rita I LOVE Robyn as well, although her puzzle in the last American Crossword Tourney kicked my butt but good. I agree with the overall sentiment today that there was something just not "fun" about today's puzzle and Thurs-Sat are my favorities, soooooo it's not that i'm a wimp. Maybe two similarly minded constructors joining forces that doesn't really help the fun factor? Maybe if they teamed up with constructors who are really a contrast to them, it would spark more creativity, no?
Good lord. This puzzle was a slog. I needed to read Wordplay after competing the puzzle to grok the underlying gimmick (three unclued words parsed into two segments to fit the clue). No "aha" moment ensued. I dunno...was a bit anticlimactic IMHO. While I am always appreciative of the skill and work that it must take to build a puzzle like this (and I am thankful for the effort), I have to say that I didn't really enjoy it. I thought some of the clues were a tad too forced/tangential and this made the overall experience kind of frustrating. I say this as a person who lives for Thursdays thru Saturdays. Just my 2 cents.
@sue w. We'll have to make that five cents, because we don't have the pennies anymore (thanks for the joke, HeathieJ!). I think we have to fall flat on our faces for many puzzles, but it's all worth it when we solve a tough one. Makes it all worthwhile.