IKEA STORE is pretty ridiculous. Would you say let’s go to the walmart store? Also: FETES, ZIA, and ERSE all in the same puzzle? Those answers work for this comment section and nobody else at all. I also don’t like when the rebus aspect leaves some clues as just a dumping ground of letters. Eg. The answer for 46. Across technically is DNAWEST. 8 Down is DRINORTH. To achieve its affect so much of the puzzle becomes gibberish. Makes the solve very unsatisfying. Very rickety construction with globs of meaningless jumbles of letters
@Brian “IKEA” is a concept, an employer, a company. It’s also a literal “store” when used in this context, as an outlet of a particular physical dimension. I thought this was great.
@Brian sounds like somebody’s got a case of the Thursdays ;)
@Brian Those examples are not just a dumping ground for letters. They are part of another answer that bends. The clue numbers you’re citing are unclued. But they’re not just random letters.
Tough one! A couple of on-the-border fills (TOGAE is *barely* fair, says this classics major), but a clever conceit and a lot of good stuff.
@Josh M TOGAs left me with Bs ADS for a long time. It felt off but sort of made sense that annoying pop up ADS for B.S. products could be described as small annoyances. When I searched for the obstacle to my gold star, TOGAE finally stood out as the problem.
@Josh M I filled in BEADS on my first pass, but then erased it in favor of TOGAs. Urk ! TOGAE didn't take as long to dawn on me, as a consequence.
Thank goodness for the minor third. It was my gimme into the theme. Led me due north as it were. Clever puzzle.
This puzzle was all over the map.
I caught on to "TOGAE" pretty quickly but really struggled to accept "OKRAS" as the plural form of okra.
@Amanda You're struggling to accept it because it's wrong, unless they're referring to different types of okra. And even then it still sounds bad. It's just another "plural of convenience."
@Amanda Even my (Yankee) DHubby hated hearing about OKRAS...and he HATES OKRA, no matter what form it's in. He just hates knowing it's being abused like that by people who should know better (or at least know how to use a dictionary to check plurals.)
Pretty fun but I lost a ton of time thinking WEST needed to be read backwards to solve the clue
Simeon Seigel never disapppoints. He can always be counted on for an interesting puzzle with varied fill and, often, a good twist. I was struggling until IKEA STORE told me where to go, which is funny because the one (and only) time I was in an IKEA STORE, I got so lost I thought I was going to have to set up camp. Admittedly, I have a poor sense of direction, but as I tried to find my way out, I ran into 2 other people who were lost as well. Anyway, I had a great time with this. I noticed that a few people took issue because WEST was not written backward, but the way I saw it was that you had to get the direction first and then follow it.
@Nancy J. I doubt you have too bad a sense of direction, as we solved in your footsteps, so to speak.
@Nancy J. Just as in this puzzle, the key to getting around in an IKEA STORE (not to mention putting together the furniture) is to FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.
What a terrific idea for a theme, to rebusize the four major directions and have them instruct which way to turn. Elegant and never-done-before. Not surprising, given the constructor, whose puzzles shine with devious wit, humor, and skill. I smiled inside and out when I saw his name atop this puzzle. Simeon has a bent for Thursdays; 10 of his 14 NYT puzzles have fallen on that day. This puzzle kept me guessing until close to the end, and that’s what I want. I don’t want to crack the gimmick early on and suddenly have the rest of the puzzle fill in in a flood. I love sparks of wit in the cluing, which elevate the solving experience. Today it showed up for me in the clues for BEADS, RED, LYE, ERSE, and the most lovely [Had the best time, say], for WON. I also love sparks of freshness that come from debut NYT answers, and there were eight today, including the terrific FOLLOW DIRECTIONS and SO WHERE DO WE STAND. I liked the [Very basic cleaner] double clue for LYE and MOP. Simeon could have done it another way, cluing MOP and MATEY with [Term for a swab]. I also liked ACME sitting right at the tippy top. Another sweet one from your fertile mind, Simeon, involving and crackling with wit. Thank you so much for making this!
@Lewis Yes - With a pH of 13, LYE is [very basic] indeed!
This was fun, but the west answer involved going in two directions at once. I didn't know I had the actual answer, so the music actually startled me. It's a bit of a kludge, no?
@MA Thank you for introducing "kludge" into my vocabulary. I love when a word sounds exactly like what it describes!!
@MA I’m with Sam, here. Never saw or heard this term before, but I can see it could be very useful. Thanks for sharing it with us! — — — — — — — — — — — —
@Sam Corbin A “kludgie” is a scots term for a toilet
Okras? Never in my life encountered that word pluralized.
@Jeff agree—I’m from TX and my whole family is from the South—I grew up eating fried okra and never, ever, ever would someone call it “okras.” It would be like saying, “we’re having corns with dinner.”
As Thursday twists go, this was all over the map. Will admit, didn't know where I was going for a while -- but finally turned the corner. Sorry.
TOGAs, which I entered instantly, held me up for the longest time. I wondered if Americans really do sweat some small things called BsADS (b-sad? Maybe in baseball or at the opry, or some other super-American thing? I've seen stranger things be correct answers in NYT grids). I wish there had been some indication of the answer being pluralized in Latin ("...in ancient Rome", perhaps?). I figured out the theme, which is rare. Too bad some bits of the puzzle were nonsense as a result of how the theme worked.
@Andrzej I am in awe of your ability to do these crosswords in cryptic English - can’t imagine ever trying a Polish crossword! One thing I have learned is these puzzles is “, once” is used to indicate in the past, usually distant past. So not the current crop of Senators, the original crew 😉
@Andrzej I am with you on nearly everything except that baseball is “some super-American thing.” Although bat-and-ball games from the UK turned into baseball in the US, the sport is now widely played in many Caribbean and Latin American nations, as well as Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, where it is a national mania. Somehow, it hasn’t made it big in Europe yet. maybe because we haven’t occupied much of it in the past 150 years.
I cant stand when so many made up or contorted words are used. Makes me want to avoid this person’s puzzles all together.
The "backwards" answer "stand" is not backwards. When you reach the circle, you head WEST as on a map. The others are the same, go north, south, east or west, in the direction of the entry.
@Lou Scheffer I think the reason for complaints (or maybe it’s just pointing out the bidirectionality of the answer portion at 46a) is that the the letters W E S T must be read left to right before reading the letters A N D right to left. So instead of DNATSEW (“we stand” backwards) in 46a, we get DNAWEST which backwards is TSEWAND, resulting in “where do tse wand” which is not anything meaningful. The rebus square must always be read left to right, which makes sense, but also seems visually incorrect.
I did not enjoy this one. I am not opposed to a rebus, but the puzzle better be tight. This one was clunky. Two of the theme clues were flawed. IKEA STORE is redundant and forced. Who says, “I’m going to the IKEA STORE?” More problematic is that WEST when filled in does not make sense if the answer is read to the west: SO WHERE DO TSEWAND. Other weak answers like TOGAE and OKRAS dragged the puzzle down further. I did appreciate ZOROASTER, IN ARREARS, CRUSHED ON, and OSCAR WILDE. I guess I will try to dwell on the joy these brought me and hold out hope for tomorrow.
Had every square filled, but *zero* circles. IKEASTORES blasted this one open for me. Four directions? EAST is one? Well, then…NORTH, WEST, SOUTH! Plop, plop, plop! And the music played! Whew! The Thursday puzzle-within-a-puzzle! Awesome. Thank you Simeon!
@CCNY IK[EA ST]ORES was where I too made sense of the circles. The answer for 42D could only be IKEA, but a normal rebus didn’t work.
I am continually in awe of the stuff constructors come up with. This was so fun and impressive!! Thursdays are always the best puzzle of the week!
Worst puzzle yet. Definitely not worth the time.
@jp inframan I wouldn't agree. The Saturday puzzle that took 26 cheats is still upper most in my mind as "The Worst". I didn't find this one as enjoyable as most puzzles, however. But I am 'just' an average solver, and so I'm sure many will disagree even stronger with you!
@jp inframan Oh c'mon, this was the worst puzzle yet? It certainly was not the best, but the worst? With how horrible some puzzles were only in the last 14 months that I've been doing them? Why waste the ultimate rant on this one?
@jp inframan I’ve seen worse but I definitely didn’t enjoy it at all. Even after I figured out the gimmick, I didn’t feel any satisfaction or enjoyment. Sorry to be negative because I am sure the effort that went into its construction was tremendous. It wasn’t the difficulty — it’s Thursday after all. The rebus, while expected, wasn’t enjoyable for me.
When a rebus {EA} for IKEA didn’t work at 42D I was really puzzled. This is one of the most complicated puzzles I’ve ever encountered, too much for me I’m afraid even using auto correct after my first run through the puzzle.
@suejean East. Not just EA. As in ikEA STore Emuuuuuu
Too clever by a lot. The explanation alone was as tangled as any instruction manual. And -- Togae? Really? Okras?? Never heard of swabs at sea -- only swabbies! And Sugar Mama not Momma.
jbnbpt, Usage in the crossword does not always conform to my personal usage preferences, but since I don't expect the puzzle to be edited to my personal preferences, it doesn't bother me. I found the revealer in the puzzle sufficient to solve the puzzle. The explanations are sometimes a bit much, but then I've only read them after solving the puzzle. It was a clever puzzle.
I agree with the other positive comments on this puzzle. The theme took a bit of time; I got it when I realized that my fill from crosses was redundant with what I had put into the rebus. Removing the extra letters got me NORTH. And it went smoothly from there. But virtually all the clues were fun, even when not part of the theme.
Convoluted, and the puzzle's theme requires questionable logical leaps. Didn't like this one.
I might be one of the only ones, but I really dislike when puzzles have a fair amount of clues that are just hyphens or dashes. I'm not the best solver, but those clues don't help with providing crosses to the solve. I was stuck on the longest time trying to figure out the directions. Like the column used as an example, 8D was no help, because the answer to 8D ends up being Drinorth.
@Phil The puzzle has a puzzle within it which is hinted at in 40A — FOLLOWDIRECTIONS. In this case, the directions are NORTH, SOUTH, EAST and WEST. At each box containing a circle we are supposed to enter one of the cardinal directions and literally turn that direction to complete the puzzle. So the answer to “Musical interval like C to E flat” is MINOR THIRD. In the puzzle it appears as MI NORTH IRD with NORTH occupying the entire box with a circle in it and IRD taking a turn to the north and running upwards. Super clever and fun isn’t it?
I finished but … meh. Felt like it tried too hard.
This was probably my least favorite puzzle in a very long time. Glad to hear I wasn’t the only one who thought this was a slog.
Simeon Seigel never disappoints me. I find his puzzles always rich without being convoluted, with perfectly calibrated clues, and always with a twist for the cherry on top. I was completely on the wavelength throughout the solve, unraveling the misdirects, and smiling throughout. What a great feeling! I even had a self-inflicted lol moment when [Doctor's orders] elicited a "Take two aspirins and call me in the morning." I left all the circles on hold until I go the revealer. Realizing there were four circles, together with the IKEA entry, broke open the themers, and thus the solve was done. So satisfying! Thank you for a terrific Thursday, Mr. Seigel. You always bring it, and you've done it again!
@sotto voce Whew, it was the opposite for me today. I had a hard time with the misdirects but I also held the circles and somewhat figured the directional thing. I was able to finish not fully understanding the full scope of the trick. But I love the column with Deb on Thursday so I had no problem getting the full explanation there. That said, this is one of those puzzles I think I would have had a better experience with tomorrow, but you don't know until you know. LOL
I’m Scottish, know Gaelic speakers and my Goddaughter goes to the Gaelic school. But I have only ever come across the word ‘erse’ in the New York Times crossword, where it appears frequently. Not only that but every time I see it my mind reads it’s as someone with a Scottish accent saying ‘arse’. I’m east coast though, wonder if anyone from the west coast of Scotland uses or hears this term? Is it used in Ireland? Or is it a term which was imported to the US with Scottish/Irish migrants but has fallen out of use here?
@Jen I had an English teacher from Glasgow - a true Scottish patriot, who taught me about many Scottish things, but nothing about Erse (she did talk about the lovely word "arse" though 🙂).
@Jen It's quite not uncommonly clued in the Telegraph cryptic but always in an Irish context, never Scottish.
I finally managed it, but I didn't find the clues to rebuses intuitive at all. More tedious than interesting is my judgment.
Haven't done the puzzle yet so haven't read through comments, but I just have to say... I'm going to miss the Vertex! The thing I love most about it is that it leaves the word-processing area of my brain free to absorb whatever's being discussed on television. Very handy for a political junkie who can't just sit and watch people talk. Tiles doesn't do it for me, so now all I'll have is internet Mah Jongg, which is also fun but a game of erasure. No cool picture at the end! For the many hours of entertainment you've provided over the years, thanks Mr Voshell!
Still wading through comments, but wanted to get this out there: Did enjoy it, and did catch on very quickly to the basic idea; I got the revealer early from just a few crosses, and I knew the answer to 22A could/should be MINOR THIRD. But I didn't think rebus at first; I spelled NORTH upwards, turning EAST when I hit the wall, so 8D was "tron" and 8A was THIRD. I guess I convinced myself a [Challenger] was someone who came in third place? At 15A I had entered OSCAR WILDE as a guess, and OSCAR was fine but WILDE was not working with THIRD above it. So I convinced myself that the quote came from some other OSCAR; I even convinced myself that WILDE would have said "poorly cast" rather than "badly cast". Once I finally got rebussy with it and got the happy music I went to find the quote. Here is the more extended version of it: “Actors are so fortunate. They can choose whether they will appear in tragedy or in comedy, whether they will suffer or make merry, laugh or shed tears. But in real life it is different. Most men and women are forced to perform parts for which they have no qualifications. Our Guildensterns play Hamlet for us, and our Hamlets have to jest like Prince Hal. The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.” ― Oscar Wilde, Lord Arthur Savile's Crime and Other Stories ============================================== tl;dr: And this is why I love Thursdays. ;) Carry on.
@Bob T. - if it had turned east, it would have had another hyphen clue. Respect the hyphen.
@Bob T. Enterprise, Columbia, Challenger… Challenger was the THIRD in the space shuttle program…. I did the same as you!
Cute puzzle and a pretty fast solve. That said, TOGAE and OKRAS? Really? That's some serious stretching.
@Allen I laughed aloud at both of those. I always wonder whether it will be TOGAE or TOGAs this week and it's always the 's'. But nooo, not this week--he moved the 's' to OKRA. A stretch, as you say, but presumably correct if you are talking about multiple varieties. The same way 'fishes' is correct when talking about multiple species. But yes, when I go back to Georgia and sit down to a big plate of my brother's fried okra (no wheat flour! No egg! Just corn meal!) then I am blissfully munching okra, not OKRAS.
Very clever. Took me until I got the revealer from crosses to be able to solve the themed clues.
This puzzle makes us (the entire household) very happy. And when we are happy, we actually slow down the solving in order to savor our Thursday. Which is good, since you always need to slow down and try to anticipate what's around that right angle turn. And, any time there are dashes instead of road signs, you need to do a full 360 degree inspection of all the surrounding signs to figure out how they might extend/bend this grid. We had already done both those things by the time we got to the super store gimme. Then there are only a few things those circles could mean; imagine our delight when we realized it was two great puzzle twists together. Our hats are off to you Simeon, you have made our day!
Alas and alack. Another Thursday, another barrage of people who hate any crossword puzzle that exhibits a twist. Some people want their money back, but the fact is that what they really want back is their dignity and certainty that they are brilliant. I know I've felt my dignity dinged when I couldn't complete a puzzle, so I know the feeling. Very, very well. Hurts like hell. But I've also learned that it's only by failing that you can really appreciate success. If you only ever completely aced crosswords, would they still be fun? If so, then I suggest googling crosswords for children.
@Francis What a condescending comment. Many people liked the crossword, some found it just OK, it's not unreasonable that several will also dislike it. Why is that a problem? Why does that mean anyone who expresses an opinion about disliking a puzzle is only suited to solving crosswords for children?
@Francis I agree. You can say that you found a puzzle difficult without personally attacking everyone involved in its creation or publication. Because you didn't like it doesn't mean there is something inherently wrong with it Also, I don't know how long these people have been doing the NYT crossword, but I have been doing it less than a year; I found after a few months I did not have trouble figuring out the Thursday gimmicks and I appreciate their cleverness. I don't think there is something inherently wrong with these puzzles.
Others here have said it better, but I will add my feedback of this puzzle as well: terrible.
NYT Crossword answers for [Senators' garments, once] and similar clues: TOGAE 30 times (12 in modern era) TOGAs 88 times (47 in modern era) ERGO: wait for the cross. ####
@Barry Ancona Veni, Traieci, Togavi "I came, I cross'd, I togaed."
@Barry Ancona FWIW, the Wyoming Territory (1868 - 1890) had the motto, “Cedant Armae Togae”, or “Let Arms Yield to the Gown(s)”. In 1869, it became the first U.S. Territory to allow women to vote and when it became a State in 1890 it was also the first to grant women’s sufferage. At Statehood the motto was changed to “Equal Rights”, as in 30A.
So much to love, so much trouble! S/HEMIS vs. SUGAR MOMMY/A vs. PRIME/O/A vs. ZOE Who? Randos: "If, with the literate, I am Impelled to try an epigram, I never seek to take the credit; We all assume that Oscar said it" (I cannot take credit for this.) *** *** Although nowadays TOGAE are primarily associated with "beer-me" frat parties, they were, in fact, not the normal everyday wear in ancient Rome, but worn only by specific persons (Upper class males--although in very early Rome, by women as well) under specific circumstances--when conducting business transactions, receiving clients, or, ahem, convening in the Senate. In that sense, they functioned like the modern business suit. A man was judged by by how carefully he folded and draped his toga, just as today one might be judged on the cut of his suit. One could use the folds of the drapery ("sinuses") as pockets to conceal little personal belongings--a dagger, say, to slay a tyrant. Most togae unadorned, but there was the "toga praetexta," with a purple hem, which was only worn by certain magistrates, and curiously, by underage boys--sort of like a Victorian "sailor-suit" And of course there was the *Toga Zoota". *** *** *** Want to know what the distance between a C and an E-flat sounds like? Let 20th c. Hungarian composer György Ligeti demonstrate (later, C to E-natural): <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVmdaeTcRAE" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVmdaeTcRAE</a>
@Bill Toga Zoota Delightful! You are a hoot. I got some European-style butter, but my R hand is still so sore I don't dare try to be too ambitious in the kitchen yet. (I thought I'd be all well and back in working order by now...)
If the constructor is going to cheat with words like OKRAS and TOGAE then I feel better about cheating too.
Wondering are the harsher critics of this puzzle low-key (A Minor 7th) admitting that they can't FOLLOW DIRECTIONS? The revealer, along with the circled theme answers, pretty well pointed the way for me. And my long-ago BA earned in geography continues to pay off in the most sublime ways. Though my need for symmetry was momentarily jarred by the asymmetrical theme answer placements, I'm guessing the constructor must have considered it, and let it go in favor of this completely enjoyable treasure map.
Deb-- "bosun" is already a short form for "boatswain" (pronounced "bosun", because British English....).
Sorry, I feel that weird clues like this have no place in the daily NYT Crossword. "Too clever by half" I think is the expression. Not enjoyable. I think the NYT is trying to compete with Puzzmo here, and it shouldn't be.
@Rob G. — Agree. I was able to complete most of it but the gimmick eluded me. Wasn’t sure how to complete it. Time-waster. (And before anyone chimes in with “but you have time to comment here,” yes, I do. I just didn’t have the time (or patience) for this.
I struggled with this one. Didn’t crack the theme on my own and the “-“ clues left me with a lot of gaps. Made it eventually with the article help today. Whew better luck tomorrow!
E Pluralize Unum. Need to watch that one in future. Two kinds of solvers. Musicians who caught on right away and everyone else who caught on in the IKEASTORE. I'm in the second group. Nicely done and thanks.
A worthy Thursday challenge that morphed from frustrating to enjoyable once I cottoned to the trick. That's the usual Thursday trajectory for me, and I like that I have to practice patience (not my strong suit) before I can figure out how it works.
Thought my streak was in jeopardy for a few minutes there despite getting the theme pretty early with Ikea Store - only to realize I had “pedal” instead of “petal”. Nope. Why wouldn’t I sweat “BS ADS”? Aah…..