My daughter completed her first NYT crossword today with no hints! I’m a proud crossword dad :] :]
@Sean Congratulations to the daughter and the proud papa! It's a wonderful milestone. Pretty soon she'll be pulling it off on Tuesdays, too. ;-)
@Sean congratulations! I’d be pleased if my daughters got into it, too - when did she start trying to solve them?
@Sean Congrats!! That's awesome!!
@Sean Good for her and good for you!!!!
@Sean congratulations, I'm urging my son, to follow in your daughter's footsteps. Kudos!
My five favorite original clues from last week (in order of appearance): 1. Dijon-mustered "yes"? (3) 2. Home to many kings and queens ((7)(3) 3. How criticism of a pastry chef might be delivered? (6) 4. Ones who should prepare for their day of reckoning? (4)(4) 5. Big shot performer? (5)(10) OUI HOLIDAY INN TARTLY MATH TEAM HUMAN CANNONBALL
@Lewis Wondering why the first clue has a question mark…
This is a nifty piece of construction. In order to get the circled letters to line up vertically the constructor had to find phrases in which each circled letter is separated from the next by two letters. That’s quite impressive. Happy birthday, Rena. Like you, I enjoy a good vertical theme, and this one was a delight.
Happy birthday, Rena Cohen! I won this in straight sets. Maybe that Eeyore from yesterday who was griping about LGBT clues will dig this puzzle more, right? Unless Peter Pan triggers him: he always struck me as a little gender fluid. (And I just noticed that Bobby Orr sounds like Bob Eeyore). "Taught to the test" was new to me, maybe that's why I graduated with a C Minus average according to the graders, and why my field experience, as recorded on my first resume, was "Washes Dishes" & "Defogs glasses." I was good at it. No boss carped about finding a morsel of egg on my plates, and if they did, I'd say "Eat it!" Eat it. I'm going to be saying that a lot for the foreseeable future. Says who? Says me!
@john ezra Petr plan could certainly be regarded as triggering fo that type of person if they know about the British pantomime tradition where the Principal Boy is traditionally played by a woman, Peter Pan being a prime example of such a role. And Pantomime Dames are, of course, played by men who tend to camp it up. I've been given a subscription to the NYT puzzles as a present from some friends. It's been interesting to try the NYT crossword. I'm used to British cryptic crosswords where plays on words such as "Bread machine" are common. There were s couple of US references which I had to check up on, but RAF, Peter Pan and Eeyore were right up my street.
@Peter I didn't know that history but Peter Pan is often played by a woman here as well. Mary Martin had the role on Broadway and Cathy Rigby (or maybe some other famous gymnast?) played him in a touring show my dad took me to in El Paso TX in the mid 1970s.
"Can you help wash the dishes?" "No, I've got a lot on my plate." (This pun just Dawn-ed on me.)
@Mike A bit of word saucer-y. You bowled me over.
@Mike I'm surprised there's not a cascade of replies today. Maybe peoples' imaginations dried up. I guess we'll wipe the slate clean and start over tomorrow.
After doing Times crosswords for awhile now, I start to imagine a world where ETTA James, Brian ENO, and BTS all work together to create an avant-garde Kpop R&B masterpiece called "Letters you need" where they sing about the Swiss ALPs and salmon ROE.
Rena’s three Times puzzles have been rich with wordplay, and I, a wordplay-loving spirit, have gotten a kick out of them. Today, I love how she bent SETS STRAIGHT into setting SET straight, vertically and horizontally. There were a pair of wordplay bonuses for me as well: • I saw how SETS STRAIGHT can become another valid phrase when you reverse the words – STRAIGHT SETS – and I wondered if there were others. @Puzzlemucker earlier came up with the excellent HOLD ON / ON HOLD. And here are some more: HOUSE GUEST, MAN CAVE, DOG SHOW, RAT PACK, and DRY RUN. • That marvelous observation by Tracy Bennet (in Sam’s blog) that RUT can be clued as {Groove] or [Not a groove]. Hah! Just a word playground today. On top of that, I was charmed by beauty in words: MORSEL, FRAYED, and CHUGGED. Ahhh. Happy birthday, dear Rena, happy birthday to you, and please, keep ‘em coming!
What can I say that hasn't already been said? I'll say it again, anyway. Happy Birthday, Rena! May all of your presents be as delightful and satisfying as the one you have given us: This puzzle! Thank you! 🎁 💐 ♥️ 🎂 🎶
Happy birthday, Rena! I really like the visual effect of this puzzle and how it evokes tennis scoring. SETS STRAIGHT / STRAIGHT SETS. Is the term for that a reversible phrase or something more esoteric? I couldn’t quickly come up with others that don’t sound Yoda-esque or green painty, except HOLD ON / ON HOLD. Well, tomorrow, or today, depending on one’s time zone (is “zone time” a thing?), life GETS REAL again. Time to DEFOG, get in the EN GARDE position, steel our FRAYED nerves and CHUG down some Monday.
@Puzzlemucker -- I grilled ChatGPT on your question about a more esoteric name for a reversible phrase, which sent it down a deep deep rabbit hole that involved many strange and wonderful terms, but none was exactly right, and so it came up dry. But see my post (coming shortly) for some other phrases besides your excellent HOLD ON / ON HOLD.
Solved today's puzzle in 43 min flat. Not my actual solve time of course, most of that time was spent with my head on my chest as my cat snored beside me (or was I the one snoring?) I do not blame the crossword, it was fun and charming and clever and certainly deserved my undivided attention.... my batteries just ran out from a rough week. On the plus side, I should have no problem beating my average Monday time for quite a while. 😄
@Janine About half my completion time on any given morning is spent looking out the window, or trying not to nod off. Needless to say, I stopped caring about my time "scores" a while ago.
Happy Birthday, Rena! Thank you for a fun Monday puzzle! [Groove]: <a href="https://youtu.be/Lrle0x_DHBM?si=rY2Vzm0OEG77G1HC" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/Lrle0x_DHBM?si=rY2Vzm0OEG77G1HC</a> Yes, "let's groove tonight, share the space of life..." which is so much better than thinking about the RUTs. Earth Wind & Fire music SETS a great tone for an UPTURN of any downcast mood. Aaaah, and Brian ENO is back in the house. My secret is that every time that happens, I mentally write him a love letter, welcoming him back, letting him know how much he was missed. How could I ever get tired of seeing him when he makes my puzzling life so much easier. Please don't be gone too long, Mr. ENO. You're the gift that keeps on giving. And, finally, to Sam: I didn't find ETCETC to be redundant, as you did, because i actually heard it being *said.* In writing, we would use it only once. But, in speech, it is very commonly expressed as "etcetera etcetera" as a list trails off. Just my take. A peaceful and healthy week to all!
I seem to be the only one who found this difficult for a Monday. However I don’t mind now that I know it’s Rena's birthday, and will add my good wishes.
@suejean Its interesting because my solve took longer than usual - which must mean the puzzle was on the tough side - but it didn't *feel* tough: which in turn may mean it was really well constructed, at least as I perceived it.
One of the most beautiful voices of R&B/Pop has left our Earthly plane... May Roberta Flack rest in peace and power. "Killing Me Softly" left an indelible mark on me when it came out in 1973. It was the year of my tenth birthday, when my family gifted me with a 3-in-1 mono sound system. Ecstatic, I plugged it in and turned on the radio, and that was the song that was playing. In honor of Ms. Flack and this puzzle's theme, here is "SET the Night to Music" – <a href="https://youtu.be/wQFIQwfxja4?si=4DBQAmPjv_q4J7Td" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/wQFIQwfxja4?si=4DBQAmPjv_q4J7Td</a>
@sotto voce Just heard the news on the radio while stuck in traffic (a rare occurrence here). Killing Me Softly will always be one of my favourite songs, with her soft beautiful voice.
How nice, on your birthday, for you to give the present to us! Thanks for a very nice Monday puzzle!
Interesting Tuesday puzzle. All four of the theme answers were debuts, which is quite unusual for an early week puzzle. And... TAUGHTTOTHETEST was something I've never encountered before. But... everything fell together from the crosses and I ended up just a bit above my Tuesday average. Just made for a nice workout. And... had to go take a look at Ms. Cohen's previous puzzles. Her debut was also a quite unusual but really nifty construction. I don't think I could describe it but here's the Xword Info link if you want to go take a look: <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/Crossword?date=10/3/2024" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/Crossword?date=10/3/2024</a> Might put another puzzle find in a reply. ....
@Rich in Atlanta As threatened - a Wednesday from November 6, 1991 by Robert Katz. Don't recall seeing another one like this. Three 15 letter theme answers: "Big names in TV" ABCCBSNBCANDCNN "Big names in educ." UCLAMITNYUANDBU "Big names in intl. orgs." NATOOASUNANDEEC Here's that Xword Info link: <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=11/6/1991&g=20&d=A" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=11/6/1991&g=20&d=A</a> I'm done. ...
Thanks for the gift to us on your birthday, Rena. With two grid spanning debuts, two other long debuts and a very clever construction, it made for a fun and lively Monday.
Married to a public high school teacher required for years to teach TO THE TEST. That’s a groaner in our house. And it’s Monday. And the world is looking gray and covered in slush. Challenge to myself- find sunshine in whatever form it may take. Oh! Here’s one ray of light- this crew right here! You guys. Thank you! And thank you Rena!
@CCNY Oi! Just read your note! Happy birthday!! 🎉🎈🎁🎂
@CCNY Where I am right now, the only slush is in a glass of piña colada! But then I thought, I didn’t think there was any precipitation in the forecast back home this week. Then I remembered, you don’t live in NYC.
That was a good Monday puzzle. I enjoyed it. Just one thing: TAUGHT TO THE TEST looks very weird to me. Is this something people really say? BTW, when I work with my students at university, I test what I have taught them rather than teach them to simply handle the test.
@Andrzej Yes, I've heard it. In that situation the focus is getting as many students as possible to pass the standardized test -- it's usually elementary school level, and I believe some sources of financial help require a certain percentage of students to pass-- and so the teachers end up focusing on what is needed for that test, not what the students need to be learning in general.
@Andrzej Yeah, that whole thing was, IMHO, part of the downfall of the American educational system. I guess we were so tired of being beaten by other nations, so we just started cheating. To what extent teachers knew *exactly* what to teach for the test, I don't know. I imagine it varied. I could see the attitude against teaching to the test starting to slip when I retired from teaching (college) in 2000. Some of the younger faculty didn't really see the problem with basically telling the students what was going to be tested. I in the older guard objected to it.
@Andrzej Yes, they do say that term. My nephew teaches teachers how to teach and he has used the term. Students in high school take Regents so these students need to be able to pass those standardized exams. That's why teachers teach to the test.
@Andrzej Yes, they do say that term. My nephew teaches teachers how to teach and he has used the term. Students in high school take standardized tests so these students need to be able to pass those exams. That's why teachers teach to the test.
@Andrzej As I solved, I thought, Andrzej is going to question TAUGHT TO THE TEST. I also wondered if you'd ever heard the rather idiomatic ME THREE.
@Some guy seeing that Utahn vs Utahan is actively being debated in the Utah legislature… It’s still an open issue.
@Some guy It's Utahn when there are 5 squares and Utahan when there are 6. Simple.
I was today years old when I learned that Ren, from "Ren & Stimpy," was a chihuahua! I always thought Ren was a . . .well, I don't know what species he/she/it was! Since we recently had Lloyd Alexander, I briefly toyed with hEN, as in Hen Wen, the oracular pig from the Prydain Chronicles, but even Disney's dreadful version of *the Black Cauldron* couldn't turn her into anything but a pig! Second attempt to post: was there something objectionable, or did I forget to hit "submit"? But at least this time I won;t forget to say): Happy Birthday, Rena!
@Bill I think it was your recommendation a few weeks ago that alerted me to The Prydain Chronicles. I guess it wasn’t so much a hit over here as I hadn’t come across it. Found a used copy online and have just started reading; Taran is trapped in the land of the Fair Folk but I suspect not for long? A great recommendation, I’m really enjoying it. The parallels with LOTR/The Hobbit are clear, but so well written I don’t resent it. Love the Welsh connection.
12D makes me think of the The King and I <a href="https://youtu.be/1JHH6iwgIek?si=8ELz9zgwfktEsmTn" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/1JHH6iwgIek?si=8ELz9zgwfktEsmTn</a>
@Lauren Ford You’re dating yourself!
Happy birthday and thanks for the puzzle present. Warning: The Toblerones you get in the US are not the same as those in Europe Thank you again, Rena
@dk I didn't know that about Toblerones. But still, if ever there was a more scrumptious and satisfying chocolate experience... The only bad thing about a Toblerone bar is that it has to be hand cut bit by bit. Try to bite into it and the tip of that triangle hits the roof of the mouth with an "ouch!" Other than that, it's all "yum!"
@dk I’ve heard this, but they’re probably just as good. I see that they can no longer have an illustration of the Matterhorn on the package as not all the ingredients are Swiss. Since 2022, some are not from Bern at all, but from Slovakia. <a href="https://tinyurl.com/yckaj5ym" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/yckaj5ym</a> TIL, you can get a 10 lb. Toblerone bar from Amazon for $135 bucks, as in the Netflix anime, Neo Yokio!
Tricky Monday. Fun puzzle with some later in the week clues and answers imho.
Took a while to get things going for a Monday but eventually was able to piece it together. Nice to have to work for it this early in the week!
As with every Monday, I always hope to beat my best time. I quickly realized that wasn’t happening this week, finally crossing the finish line well over double my best Monday time. Some great cluing and unusual fill kept me on my toes. Especially chuckled at EAT IT, ME THREE, SAYS ME, TAUGHT TO THE TEST.
I found that a tad chewy for a Monday, but no less enjoyable. Started well, but then came a cropper with my old friend; cultural difference. I wanted DEmist rather than FOG, no clue to Sallie MAE, or the phrases at 29A, I’m used to trip rather than EXPERIENCE and 46A, not heard that one before. Getting the theme helped fill in the circles though. Naturally, EEYORE was a gimme. Happy Birthday to all who celebrate today.
@Helen Wright A field trip is what grade school classes do for a day out. Field experience is, for instance, what a college student studying ecology or biology might do shadowing a park ranger for a semester. I’m sure others could come up with difference examples for field experiences. This was just the first that came to mind mind.
Our old friend EPEE makes yet another appearance, this time with a purpose! Directive? Calling? As for Tracy’s clue suggestion for RUT, might I float an edit, into “Not/A groove”? I’m not sure “Take the L” was the best option for EAT IT, which has previously connoted x-sports wipeouts. “Receive an L against one’s will,” maybe? Same with “Sinks in” for GETS REAL, which to me speaks more towards exhibiting frankness, as opposed to “getting” something in realization. Thank you and Happy Birthday, Ms. Cohen!
@Alfredo I had never hear the Take the L phrase. Gets Real also seemed odd to me, but I think it works because "This is getting real" does mean the speaker is understanding that something really is happening.
Maybe it's just me!? I completed the puzzle in good time before I even noticed there were circled letters. Thus the "theme" was lost on me. (Is that a non-sequitur?). Has happened before. Cute x-word, but are "themes" really needed for Mondays' 'quickies'?
kim, I always look at the grid to see if there is anything unusual before I start solving, but I'm not in a big rush; you do you. Most of us don't need the theme to solve a Monday. I think the idea is that themes on Mondays make them more interesting than just "quickies." YMMV.
@kim mills Did you just ignore 54A? Most themed puzzles (except rebuses) can be solved without understanding the theme, so no... the themes aren't necessary. They are just the cherry on top that makes it more enjoyable (or nuts, or chocolate, whatever your preference) 🙂
@kim mills I find themes often beside the point and not only on Monday, but they are traditional, I guess.
@kim mills Wow! Are you from the Goult in PACA? Don’t think we get to many cruciverbalists from that commune. Welcome!
Happy Birthday, Rena! Thanks for sharing your gifts with us! This puzzle was a joy to unwrap from start to finish. Thanks!
Pitch perfect Monday! (although to this former Chicagoan, Take the L has only one meaning). Nice morning ride, Rensa...well done!
@Norwood I worked in Chicago for while many years ago and had the same thought about 'Take the L.' But that did lead me to one more puzzle find: A Thursday from June 6, 1985 by William Lutwiniak. Three theme answers in that one: DUKEELLINGTON SENTIMENTALMOOD TAKETHEATRAIN .....
Sunny Puzzle for a sunny Virginia Monday morning. My day is made. Thank you Rena and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
In Real Life (as opposed to CrossWorld) is Rena a Logistics Specialist? Because getting everything SET up to fall into place exactly as needed can be quite the daunting chore.... Did Rena arrange for this morning's FOG? "Business reversals" are usually thought to be in the OTHER direction, are they not? See youse guys tomorrow!
As usual I didn’t think about the theme until the end. But then it was great fun to see!
So funny! When I put in the answer for 50A, I also thought about Toblerone! This is one of the rare times I instantaneously understood Sam's picture clue!
2 minutes 34 seconds faster than my average! Loved how the answers just flowed today! I even got TAUGHT TO THE TEST without any down clues 😂 And it's a borahae Monday with a BTS clue 💜💜 maybe I'll pull out a Love Yourself tour dvd to celebrate
@Cathy Yes, I had to look that up. How soon will we see borahae in the puzzle?
@Cathy Cute. I found an entire on-line dictionary of these terms. Agree with Linda Jo, these are great late-week xword entries. Quit a few are very vowel-friendly… <a href="https://tinyurl.com/42umd274" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/42umd274</a>
@Cathy I was surprised to hear that BTS overthrew the Assad regime in Syria. That's some powerful pop music! Oh, that was HTS? (In the voice of Emily Litella) Never mind.
Lyric MORSEL heard as I did the puzzle this morning: I want you to show me what you mean Then help me with the crossword in the mornings (the rest of the song is NSFW. Lucy Dacus, Ankles.) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcW_-uxy6dQ" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcW_-uxy6dQ</a>
@Linda Jo Great song! Thanks for the link. Had not heard this artist before.
@Linda Jo A Lucy Dacus callout, nice! I listen to an actual radio station during the day (WFUV), and this latest release of hers is in regular rotation. I have really enjoyed her work, solo and in the "supergroup" Boy Genius. :)
@Linda Jo Thank you for introducing me to a new song, and a new artist! Made my day:-)
Nice Monday puzzle. Not difficult, but not ridiculously easy. After I filled in the grid, the message appeared that there was a mistake somewhere (oops!) -- but it was easy to find. Game, SET, Match. Happy Birthday Rena Cohen! Got "Strands" today with no hints, which is a change from all the Strands where I have needed 4 or 5 hints, and the nice puzzle program has had to show me the order of letters in a theme word. And a late "Hurrah!" for yesterday's Mini. Vroom vroom! Let's see more Minis with surprises.
@Natdegu Yes, the Mini yesterday was so much fun. 😊
It’s my birthday, too! Thanks for the fun solve, Rena!
Etta James has certainly gotten a lot of mileage of "At Last."
SALLIE MAE is not a federal loan org! It’s a private loan company that makes money off of the confusion between FANNIE MAE (FNMA), an actual federal loan program.
...is no longer a [(federal student loan agency)].
@Cassie Different loan types: Fannie Mae is housing, Sallie is higher education. And while it may be privatized now, Sallie Mae originated as a federal agency. (It was when I used it in the 80's!) I would think the confusion stems more from its former status than that someone taking out a college loan is simultaneously thinking about becoming a homeowner!
Happy Birthday Rena! Great puzzle from Morsal to desert! May your day get better and better.
Happy Birthday Rena Cohen. I enjoyed solving your Monday puzzle.
Well, I was today years old when I learned that Ren, from "Ren & Stimpy" was a chihuahua. I always thought he/she/it was a . . . well, I never knew *what* species Ren was. Since we just recently had Lloyd Alexander, I briefly considered hEN, as in Hen Wen, the oracular pig from the Prydain Chronicles, but even Disney's dreadful *The Black Cauldron* could not turn her into anything but a pig.
As a retired teacher, several leaped out at me. Despite my initial "oh my" at this for a Monday puzzle, I came close to my best. I'll call it a B+
Coincidentally I had a sushi dinner right before doing the crossword. It involved salmon ROE and uni. I put in ROE, which was correct, but I prepared myself to get very angry if the answer was actually uni, since, despite common misconceptions, uni is not egg
Steven, Not to worry. Shortz knows his sushi. Sun Jan 10, 2021 6D Sea urchin, at a sushi bar (5) The (5) means that exact clue has appeared five times. There have been many variants.
Not every business reversal is an UPTURN, tho’ — just like EAT IT isn’t synonymous with taking an L.
@Ken W. As long as an UPTURN is a business reversal, the clue is good. It doesn’t have to be the same thing. Similarly, if EAT IT means taking an L in one of its senses (and it does), that clue is also good. Clues and answers don’t have to be synonymous.
I always enjoy seeing "unit of resistance" clued, but how many times does its antiquated reciprocal show up...and in the same puzzle?? Interesting theme, but 46A was off the beaten track for me.
@Call Me Al - I've seen mho in the puzzle, but not as often as OHM. Those who subscribe to xwordinfo could probably chime in with the latest statistics on mho, including how many times it's appears with OHM.
@Call Me Al Not quite sure what you’re getting at, but if it’s OMHS/mhos, it’s not happened in NYT puzzles. Am I missing something?
Regarding Sam’s “fool’s spring”: <a href="https://youtu.be/wkDvqQKGgDA?si=rRDDIBT1zy67nXq8" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/wkDvqQKGgDA?si=rRDDIBT1zy67nXq8</a> And remember: TRUE UPS GROWON (Going to be a couple degrees above freezing here this week. But it’s a dry heat.)
@JohnWM I don't know about this fool's spring deal, I saw 'my' bluebirds in the back yard this morning. Nest building has not yet commenced, but it's a sure sign of actual spring for me.
I decided over the weekend that I'm going to bail out of this place. The comments here have become just too toxic. The negativity is almost as bad as the comments sections/"discussions" in places like the Boston Globe, or all of Facebook, and so on. And too often I find myself also adopting the negativity that is so common here. And then I hate myself. I have only so much time and energy to waste paying attention to and responding to people who just want to gripe and complain. Besides, I have to prepare for the coming pandemic. Which is going make Covid look like a slight summer sniffle. 8^) TATA, folks!
@CaptainQuahog You will be missed!
@CaptainQuahog I'll miss your input including but not limited to all things marine related. I'm guilty of being negative some days lately. It's hard not to be in these trying times.
CaptainQuahog, Please do not bury yourself in the mud.
@CaptainQuahog I too will miss you. Be well.
@CaptainQuahog Understandable, but it will be our loss. Also, I left you a comment after your most recent comment to me on yesterday's puzzle, which I hope you'll read if you see this.
@CaptainQuahog I'll miss your posts, and I don't even like most people. ;-)
@CaptainQuahog I'll miss ya. There are days when I bow out, and some conversations I have to scroll past. But it's still far less toxic than the news sites and social media gripe fests.
@CaptainQuahog You will definitely be missed! These days I just check the newer comments and then jump to Reader Picks which usually have humor and/or more amicable complaints.
@CaptainQuahog I truly am sorry, as I'm sure I'm a primary offender. The problem with a crisis like this is that only half of the country really cares. And for them the desire to do something, anything, that might help is just overwhelming. I've really enjoyed you posts, and hope you come back at some point. P. S. For someone complaining about the darkness, you final paragraph is a doozy.
@CaptainQuahog There will be a place waiting for your return.
@CaptainQuahog Say it aint so, Qua.
@CaptainQuahog At least try to come back and visit from time to time. I like and appreciate your contributions and expertise.
The correct spelling for someone from Utah is Utahn, not Utahan. The Times continually gets it wrong.
Pam, You're late to the party; it been going since yesterday. <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/shared/comment/45hd4n?rsrc=cshare&smid=url-share" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/shared/comment/45hd4n?rsrc=cshare&smid=url-share</a>
@PamS Apparently, at least one authoritative voice in your state disagrees with you: <a href="https://www.deseret.com/2002/5/27/19657321/utahn-and-utahan-correct/#:~:text=Actually" target="_blank">https://www.deseret.com/2002/5/27/19657321/utahn-and-utahan-correct/#:~:text=Actually</a>%2C%20both%20%22Utahan%22%20and,well%20as%20most%20Utah%20residents).
@PamS I've almost come to the conclusion that spelling is entirely random, and that it's impossible to congregate enough English language "rules" to guarantee a single plural for a noun. I mean, look at English spelling: knife (silent k) gnome (silent g) prerogative (pronounce "per...") surprise (sometimes silent first r) their (remember "i before e, except after c"...just it doesn't work for one of the most common words.) I'm sure the wordsmiths here can come up with battalions of examples. It seems to me that battles over the "correct" spelling is akin to arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. So