I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet something that was a bit shocking to me.. FEMININE SIDE being the puzzle answer to "It might be expressed with emotion"... this seems to be an outdated sexist viewpoint.. as if one's masculine side cannot be expressed with emotion? It seems to reinforce stereotypes of women always "being too emotional" and men not being allowed to show emotion for fear of being seen as "feminine". The most uncomfortable part of solving crossword puzzles for me is when you don't agree with the viewpoint of the constructor and feel complicit in whatever cultural zeitgeist is being affirmed by the puzzle's creators by typing out the "correct answer" that you don't actually agree with...
@AH Um, if it's in the "cultural zeitgeist" then by definition it's not yet at all "outdated" despite how one might wish it so. Young men in general haven't stopped bottling up emotions or acting traditionally masculine. I found the answer a bit hidebound too, but that doesn't make it either wrong or distasteful.
@AH I just wonder how "FEMININE SIDE" *could* have been clued so that it wouldn't sound outdated (serious question...I'm sure there is a way). Anyway, I was also a bit taken aback by the clue and answer when I got it, but EVENER made me forget all about it (sort of like slamming your thumb with a hammer to cure your headache).
I'm willing to be the first one to say that this was a show off for the constructors. But ultimately so arcane as not to be fun. But the late Eugene Maleska, asked whether it was fair to look up answers in a dictionary, replied that he thought it was since, after all, the constructors do.
@Joe Horton Your observation, "ultimately so arcane as not to be fun," chimes with me. The clues on the entire left-hand side of the puzzle left me feeling like Homer Simpson during Bart's parent-teacher conference, which is to say: nothing at all came into my head. There must be some test of a good clue: it can't be so direct and simple that your brain goes right to the answer; but it can't be so vague and arcane that you can't think of ANYTHING that it might refer to. Even the specific clues (for FISHEYES, for example) couldn't be solved by more than 0.05% of the population. Having to run to Google really reduces the satisfaction, I would say.
While I found this hard to the point of frustration, I will not complain in detail about that, because the comments section has informed me that too many people are already complaining about how hard this was. But what I do want to say is, FEMININE SIDE, seriously? It's 2024, can we please leave these tired gender stereotypes in the past?
i swear if one more western crossword constructor refers to an ORANGUTAN as an ORANG again....
@Mr T Yeah what's up with that? The dictionary claims it's been used since 1778 but it has a strong "Hello Fellow Kids" (Buscemi meme) vibe to me... /All the cool kids call the emus "ems" now... For no darned good reason
@Mr T I'd be OK with it if they marked it as an abbreviation. But, they didn't. I thought that was against the rules.
@Mr T Agreed. And there are very compelling reasons to either remove that word from lists or clue it completely differently. Recommended reading: <a href="https://www.orangutanssp.org/orang-vs-orang-utan.html" target="_blank">https://www.orangutanssp.org/orang-vs-orang-utan.html</a>
I feel there ought to be a limit on the number of trivia permitted in a given crossword puzzle. Too many proper names, for those of us who don’t care to keep up with pop culture, just makes it a slog. Wordplays, puns, anything that challenges my creative language skills is so much more fun and satisfying than just knowing some obscure brand name or a flavor-of-the-month celebrity.
Hmmm, not the full name of the zoo animal, in fact your answer simply means “person” in Indonesian.
@Aria Hmmm, some of us do know that the word “orangutan” means “person of the forest” in Indonesian, but so what? This is not a test of Indonesian etymology. The clue just asks for an animal whose name suggests its color, and ORANG is close to “orange”, and these animals are sorta orange. Of course, this is just a coincidence, since the original Indonesian doesn’t suggest that at all, but it’s an English word in this puzzle. And the shortened version is a word in its own right, like hippo and rhino and budgie.
Aria, True, of course, as is noted in a comment each time the answer is in a puzzle, but try reading the clue again. The clue and answer are 100% accurate. #####
I was hoping to see far more positive comments today. All of this negativity is disappointing. For the record: I didn't know ABC ISLANDS, BARBIECORE, BLUE MARLIN, FISH EYES, ETONIC, KIVA, SIM, NOLTE, HANK, WIM, LUCIA, NORA or VAL ... and yet, I managed to complete this puzzle. Sure, not knowing those made me work harder on the crosses, but isn't that the point? Saturday used to be all about the struggle. When did we get so soft?
@Nancy J. Exactly! It took me 3x as long today but I learned some new words/terms in the process. Very satisfying.
Nancy J., I needed crosses to either remember or fill completely seven of the answers, which is about on par for me for a challenging Saturday puzzle. My water clock is not precise, but this one didn't seem to take any longer than any other Saturday-like Saturday. I enjoyed it quite a bit, as I noted here last night shortly after 10 p.m. ET.
Well, that's the most sexist thing I've ever seen in a crossword. Can we please do away with the idea that women are more "emotional" than men? This stereotype has been used to keep women down for centuries. The idea being that since we are so "emotional," we can't be rational, like men. Who apparently do not have emotions. Showing emotion isn't getting in touch with your FEMININE SIDE. It's just called being human.
@Katie Women aren't more emotional than men. However, they display more emotion than men. BTW, Katie from Minnesota, are you by any chance my daughter?
Katie, Please read the 20D clue again. Thanks, and best wishes. #### human, not emu
For all the puzzle-haters in the comments, I share my utterly lovely solving experience this morning. My mother and I sat side by side in our rocking chairs in my sunroom. We listened to a cardinal sing as we debated WRENS and TEALS. We reminisced about favorite movies as we figured out NOLTE and WIM. We watched the sun dapple the leaves in my courtyard -- a beauty that ICANTEVEN describe. Puzzles are about the joy of connection and (re-)discovery, joys amply manifested this morning. Peace.
These are the kind of puzzles that make me glad I cancelled my subscription. I hate making one pass through the grid, having like three answers entered, and just having to turn autocheck on and roll with it. Though they’re not necessarily Naticks, TIG Notaro and WIM Wenders made it extremely difficult to get a foothold in their respective regions. (Seriously, I feel bad for these people. Who named them?!). You also have a golf apparel brand and “guess what the hell I mean” non-clues like, “Unlike this answer,” that make me roll my eyes in disgust. The rest of the grid wasn’t bad, necessarily, but there is just no way I would ever have gotten some of these answers without being able to guess and test letters. Too many answers like NOTAR, ALT-comedy and KEG stand crossed with TEAL, ERST, KIVA and NORA. Even with _IVA and _OTAR, I wouldn’t have gotten them right. I had LOTAR and no idea what to put in for KIVA, so I just ran the alphabet until K worked. The only cool thing I will remember from this puzzle is Islam means “submission.” That’s a fun factoid. I just am tired of Saturdays basically coming down to knowing the trivia or not. The clues are just too unhelpful for you to make much headway for the trickier answers, and if you don’t know the name of some foreign movie star or bad comic, you won’t be able to make much progress. I should be having an enjoyable time, not exclaiming in disgust when I come across an answer like TIG. (Seriously, poor guy.)
@Darian I like Saturdays because I always learn new things. Ms. TIG Notaro would really not be considered a “bad comic,” but if you didn’t know her before, you do after finishing this puzzle. So you learned something new.
The many commenters decrying the blatant and weirdly outdated sexism of feminine side cheers me. Thank you all. In an age where one of the major political parties is trying to drag us all back to the Bronze Age, this is no small lapse. The editors owe us an explanation and apology.
Puzzle was a slog and FEMININE SIDE pretty much unforgivable. Yuck.
All Saturday puzzles should be this difficult. I solved it without lookups, but it required a lot of thinking, a fair amount of guessing, and one hour and 28 minutes.
@Laura Stratton That just sounds like a nightmare to me, but you do you. If I had to sit and pore over a crossword puzzle for almost 90 minutes, I think I’d commit seppuku.
@Laura Stratton Same experience. Same opinion. 50% over average Saturday time. And I even knew WIM, TIG, FELIX, and ___MARLIN.
@Laura Stratton Took me forever, but I rarely have much juice left on Friday night. Probably should have given up and waited to have a cup of coffee on Saturday morning, but the house was so quiet with all the teens out . . .
Ah, Saturday toughness. Some lovely impenetrable-for-a-while knots to let the brain marinate on. Knots due to no-knows, vague clues, answers I know but can’t immediately recall, and other mysteries. Monday is for sledding; Saturday is for climbing. I like Saturday in the Times because the constructors and editors are crafts-people, know how to adjust clues to make the impenetrable eventually open up, usually with great satisfaction. I DIG. And I dug the process of uncovering today’s capital-p Puzzle. This is a jewel of a finished product. Not only fewer words than the average Saturday, but fewer blocks as well, making for those four lovely and crunchy stacks. But where is the junk? Do you know how hard it is to product a 68-word, 25 block grid with hardly a whiff of junk? And freshness! Words never or hardly seen in the NYT grid in its 80-plus years, bringing new answers and clues to crack -- spark. Today’s puzzle not only has eight first-time answers, but also five that have only appeared once, and four that have shown up just twice. These answers alone account for a quarter of the puzzle’s words. One out of four – wow! Thank you, Barbara and Matthew, for this sweet riddle to crack, for the time spent coursing through beauty and quality. This was a most splendid outing!
@Lewis As a climber, this Saturday was nothing like my favorite and most enjoyable pastime 🤣.
Wow. Serious contender for clunkiest puzzle in my 4 year streak.
I CAN'T EVEN with all the complaints about this puzzle, which I enjoyed solving despite running into trouble in a couple of spots on the West side. I do find it amusimg that there were complaints about not knowing who TIG Notaro is, as she is known for not recognizing well-known people herself, which she makes fun of in a series of episodes called Under a Rock on Funny or Die. Here she is with Tony Shaloub. <a href="https://youtu.be/oKGcMHpOd1M?si=LNVGuPK7hNe4WCDB" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/oKGcMHpOd1M?si=LNVGuPK7hNe4WCDB</a>
@Vaer TIG Notaro had a small part on “Star Trek: Discovery.” I was always happy to see her show up.
I can’t even talk about the use of “evened,” but even that was not as bad as “feminine side.” I kept resisting filling it in. The clue seemed incredulous…but maybe that’s just me being emotional.
The first time I saw an orangutan was in Malaysian Borneo. As this incredible creature and I exchanged glances, I remember thinking how much more he knew about me than I knew about him.
@Billy Ray Johnson This is a most beautiful and poetic comment if ever there was one. You've put a smile on my face. Thank you.
@Billy Ray Johnson I was cooling down from my run yesterday when a chocolate lab with a young woman on his leash passed by me from the opposite direction. I smiled at him, and he looked right into me and held his gaze until we’d completely passed each other. His eyes were the color of old gold coins. The same thought occurred to me as it had to you.
@Billy Ray Johnson This! This is why orang needs to be scrapped. They definitely live up to their whole entire names.
I was stuck in the NW section but hung tough and PERSISTED. The DDS clue is great, I smiled when I crossed that bridge. I love the LOAVES and fishes entries. Congratulations, Barbara, on joining the elite group of constructors to have a puzzle published each day of the week. A great collaboration today with Matthew.
@Anita I knew it was probably DDS pretty much immediately. It was the rest of the puzzle that gave me a hard time. ;)
Most frustrating NYT Crossword to date for me, but that’s not saying much, as I am rather new to the commitment to these puzzles. Typically I learn quite a bit of factual information and love having a laugh when I see various connections. I am still looking up some of how the structure of a clue will impact the correct entry. I did not see or understand the cleverness of this puzzle and felt irritated by that until I came to the comments. I wanted validation for my irritation, and I got that, but finally read a comment that made several sections of the puzzle and cross words click! Whew! So I have mostly changed my opinion of this Saturday puzzle even though it was still frustrating. I am now feeling a good frustration and even that bit of frustration is on me and my inexperience, not the constructors of the puzzle. Thank you for teaching me so much more about the NYT Crossword and not just the basic trivia of different subjects. One thing I can’t reconcile is the FEMININESIDE…it just doesn’t sit right with me no matter how you phrase or interpret clue.
Well, that was a pleasant challenge from a talented tag team. Thank you, Barbara and Matthew. #####
Just popping by to say that this is on my short list of themeless POYs. Hard to pick a favorite clue/entry but I NEED A RIDE might be the best use of an emoji in a clue to date. Bravo Barbara and Matthew! (Miss all the wonderful folks on here)
@Puzzlemucker -- Puzzlemucker! First, it was Sam Lyons yesterday returning after a long absence, and now you today! Hello! SO good to see you! Hang around, visit, don't disappear -- please! Gift upon gift here two days in a row! Et tu, emu.
Puzzlemucker, Good to see you! Good to see another poster who enjoys solving a challenging puzzle. #####
@Puzzlemucker, good to see you! I miss your charm and humor. Can never have enough of those- hope you can visit now and again.
This was the least fun I've had solving a puzzle in a long time. I am glad some of you liked it- it was a complete slog for me. EVENER? THRILLS? DDS? I could not disagree with Caitlin more: the cluing was about as elegant as an ORANG.
The clueing shouldn't be difficult for the sake of being difficult. It should be difficult and well thought out. This one isn't. Anyone can write clues that barely relates to the answer. NYT crosswords used to be better than this.
Weird. I usually get a Saturday done in 30 to 40 minutes - so I'm not fast, but I usually get there in the end. A real Natick for me at 51: I had LO TAR and LORA. EVENER? Really? ORANG?? Yes I know it's in the dictionary. Clunky overall.
@Andrew according to some condescendingly crotchety crossword commenters, we're somehow supposed to know everything ("get out! Read! Be better at crosswords!"), while also knowing so little that Saturday puzzles are prohibitively difficult I agree with you. A good challenge is satisfying to solve; this one just left a sour taste
@Andrew Even the folks who are trying to argue that ORANG is common and not an abbreviation wouldn't be able to explain the "zoo" part. How are orangutans specifically zoo animals? Just sloppy and lazy cluing for that one. But I will admit that I might only be feeling emotions about this one because I'm too FEMININE.
Terrible puzzle. Yeah it's difficult. Because of all the obscure proper nouns. Just google them (like the constructors did) and save yourself the time. Note to the editor: A good, tough Saturday is comprised of cleverly clued words that can be figured out with effort, not z-list "celebrities" no one's ever heard of. Do better.
@LJADZ "Just google them (like the constructors did) and save yourself the time." That's what my mother used to call "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Go ahead and do that, but you'll never improve and get to the point where you can figure things out.
@LJADZ Agree totally! Too many names! Crosswords are all about words and wordplay. You either know an obscure name or not. You can’t figure them out and they are idiosyncratic.
I'm sorry but what in the world is an "ORANG"? I have never heard orangutan be shortened in that way, nor does the clue suggest that the answer would be abbreviated. Really seems like a stretch.
@CaptainQuahog There’s really no need to be mean.
I CAN’T EVEN with 20D. So, only women express emotions? Didn’t like the puzzle for its awkward fill anyway, but 20D was the nail in the coffin for me. Try again tomorrow
I’ve been on a nice no lookups spree, which ended hard with this puzzle. I sure didn’t “race through it.” However, this one made me think about one of the knacks that comes with crossword experience. I now find myself recognizing probable partial answers to long entries earlier and more often than I used to. Just in the extreme NE, I had something ISLANDS, BARBIE something, and something MARLIN long before I could figure out any of these in their entireties, leading to crosses that moved me along.
@Paul Turner i definitely had MARLIN before BLUE. And similarly I had more than one random "S" for something which seemed like a plural or a verb which required it.
@Paul Turner Pretty much exactly my experience with this puzzle as well.
Today’s was awful. The clues were too obscure and tried too hard. It was not enjoyable at all.
Got the east side filled in without lookups (wish I could unsee barbiecore). But west was just hell. Having "pressed on" and "hitch a ride" didn't help. Nor did lookups, especially when the first dancer that came up with that last name has a different first name that also fits the puzzle. Gave up and revealed half the clues in NW and SW. Looked in the dictionary and still have no idea what "evener" was about. And "feminine side", really? Am I solving a crossword from a century ago?
@SN Thank you! I would love for someone to explain this. Seems like a misogynistic clue to me!
Y’all have beaten me to everything on my kvetch list, so I won’t belabor those points. Rather I’ll point out that there are times when obscure or rare clues reel me in and make me want to track down the answers, and there times — like today — where I. Just. Don’t. Care. I’m assuming that’s on me today and not on the constructors. I’m still impressed that people create these things for my amusement, and always will be.
@Barbara Prillaman Y'all and kvetching - this is why I love America. No joke.
You guys really stepped in it on this puzzle. Nobody thought FEMININESIDE was a bad idea? Are you living in the 1950's? And cross that with FISHEYES? I googled it and still couldn't find the reference. Finally, there are literally zero cigarettes with NOTAR. I don't mind Saturday stumpers but this was just a poorly constructed puzzle.
Laborious, joyless slog. After 2 hrs, I pretty much just gave up in the NW quadrant. Congrats on the full cycle to the constructors and all, but seriously, EVENER? FEMININESIDE? Blech.
Came to add my voice to the chorus of folks who are disappointed in the clue for FEMININESIDE. Yikes! People of all genders express emotions!
Oi… Had to sweat for this one. Apparently, there are a zillion things I’m unfamiliar with. For starters- KIVA CASTing SLOTS FELIX… and so many more. But, it’s Saturday. Reminds me of the frog and the scorpion. Both want to cross a river. Scorpion asks frog, “Can I have a ride on your back?” Frog replies, “But you’re a scorpion and you’ll sting me and I’ll drown!” Scorpion says, “But if I sting you, we both drown. Why would I do that?” Frog agrees. Halfway across, scorpion stings the frog. As they begin to drown, the frog asks, “Why did you do it?” “Because I’m a scorpion!” If I come here on a Saturday, I get a Saturday puzzle. Happy weekend to all!
@CCNY, “CASTing SLOTS” It’s actually CASTS LOTS. DOOK strikes again!
20d is a classic example of the type of clue, and disappointing answer, that are common to the NYT crossword - despite public outcry. Attributing the ability to feel emotion to one side of an arbitrary construct is out of touch - it’s misogynistic and an affront to mental health for people at any point on the gender spectrum.
This is the worst puzzle ever written. I'm not even going to try to come back and finish this abomination. Saturdays are supposed to challenge the solvers. This witless, arrogant, and sadistic construction does no such thing. Throwing a bunch of random phrases that nobody ever uses into a google salad of unknown trivia does not provide any sort of satisfaction. We're all so impressed.
@Michael I might have had similar feelings (although without using words like worst and witless) ten years ago when I seriously started getting into the NYT crossword. I solved this puzzle in 11.6 minutes.
@Michael "sadistic"? Really? It's a PUZZLE. If you find it that distressing, are you sure this is the right pastime to engage in? Seems like you have an outsize response to being challenged. Also, I would invite you to remember you don't speak for everyone; this trivia might not have provided any sort of satisfaction *to you,* but since I'm pretty certain you're not the arbiter of everything that is good and welcomed in crosswords, it might be better to avoid making pronouncements as though you were.
@Michael Wow, you've really done every puzzle ever written!? That's incredible!! Congratulations!! Even so, throwing words like abomination and sadistic around about a puzzle is a little extreme.... I hope you'll take a few deep breaths and have a better rest of your day!
A comment about clue 46 Down in this otherwise excellent Saturday puzzle. An orang is a “zoo creature”? How sad that any of the great apes should be identified that way!
Wow that was something else. Tough puzzle, Matthew and Barbara, but most satisfying. Thanks for the challenge, it helps keep me humble.
The puzzle was fine. Certainly not warranting all the negatives. Some natick… sure - but not that much. A couple of nice misdirects. I look forward to Thursday through Sunday and stretching my mind a little.
Hate to call it out but ORANG does not refer to the colour orange but means person in Malay or Bahasa Indonesia. The full name ORANGUTAN means jungle person, hutan being the word for jungle or forest. Absolutely addicted to NYT crosswords but this clue needs correcting. Thanks!
@Karishma You're mistaken. I didn't like the clue much - the shortening seems forced and the color reference too obvious - but the clue reads "whose color is suggested by its name". That does NOT say the animal was named for its color. It says that the act of reading the name would suggest that color to the reader.
@Karishma exactly I only guessed it as the only possible colour which it could be. Also Orang isn't Orange. If it were there may have been some sense. A good example of obscure nonsensical cluing.
I have a friend who is a trivia master. We both do the nyt crossword and he reliably solves it faster than I do because of this knowledge. Until today, I didn't realize he was cheating by knowing things. I will tell him he needs to forget it all do he can do the crossword the way it was intended.
@Dan You really put the "cross" into crossword. Scolding a friend for knowing things - Imagine that! Thanks so much for the smile. Just what I needed.
I guess I’m just a shrill, emotional woman, getting irritated and annoyed by the misogynist clueing for FEMININESIDE. Were I not trying to keep a streak going, I would have left that entry empty.
@Conscious Human Even as a cold, emotionless man, I found it difficult not to be annoyed by that one.
In a word: horrid. In three words: just plain horrid. Huge thumbs down for nearly all these wretched clues. And an huge Booby (ha!) prize for the antiquated idea expressed in the clue that led to this absurd answer— FEMININE SIDE. Come On! (to quote our President) it’s 2024. Seriously? Help me!
My favorite thing about this puzzle is 32D I CAN'T EVEN because I just happened to use it for the first time yesterday when I posted on Facebook. Hope this doesn't cross a line but it involved the notion that childless women, such as myself, don't have a stake in the country and want others to be miserable... and the implication we are miserable without children. Though we did all we could to try to have kids, miserable I am not! I CAN'T EVEN struck me for the first time as the most adequate way to summarize my feelings about it so it was funny to see it show up. And it was one of the few things I got easily in this puzzle. I got there but I didn't allow myself a gold streak because I accidentally saw the picture of the LEANING TOWER on my large monitor, so that wasn't great. I'm not sure how I would have fared without being able to fill it in immediately without crosses. I also did a few confirmation checks. I was very uncertain about some things on the left side, especially the top. So not what I consider a clean solve for myself. I strongly disliked FEMININE SIDE to the point of my own peril in not wanting to accept it as a possible answer. That capped off this not being a favorite puzzle for me. I like a challenge and keep trying to get better, but I like fun word play and some laughs. This was too dry for my taste but I'm appreciative of every puzzle and this one too will add to my knowledge base and help me be better! Maybe I'll even try a KEG stand. 🤕🩼 Ha!
@HeathieJ Ah, I, too, didn't like the clueing and answer about the "feminine side." Far too stereotypical for me. We've been married for 56 years now, and I get as emotional as my spouse does, for sure. Of course, language plays its part, especially etymology. You know that language expresses the idea that men can't possibly become hysterical, because they have no "hyster" -- "uterus" (think of hysterectomy). I am happy to have been surrounded all my life by my mother, my wife, my daughter and my granddaughter (who just graduated high school)--all intelligent, independent and strong women, never shy to express their views.
@HeathieJ hated "feminine side"! Should've been axed.
@HeathieJ I very strongly endorse your carefully worded message to those who are reasonably outraged by attacks on segments of the population unlike oneself. I am utterly appalled at where we are. I even wonder if we ever deserved the country we had, for a little while.
Best Saturday in quite a while. Thank you, Barbara and Matthew. Some people are complaining about the names and brands, but they were so fairly crossed that if you didn't know them you could work them out, and that's the whole point of a *cross*word puzzle. Sheesh, people, it's Saturday, and it's not supposed to be easy.
@Nancy J. You and I think they were fairly crossed, but those with small wheelhouses may not. Solution: Read more, get out more, keep your eyes open more. (Not you, of course.)
Not really a complaint, but this puzzle just didn't click for me. Lots of obscure trivia plus misdirections and unusual phrasing made for a puzzle that was too hard to enjoy. Of course, that's just me. I'm sure there were folks who enjoyed this one, and others who found it to be rubbish. I'm in the middle. It just wasn't for me. DDS did make me smile, though I didn't find it until long after I turned on Autocheck.