Make a crossword without a playground retort clue challenge
@Dan Saturday’s “Did so” answer irked me, maybe because I was having trouble in that corner of the grid. By contrast, I didn’t mind today’s DOES SO. Go figure.
@Dan Or at least make them sound like real kids. Kids curse. A lot. Even 50 years ago, my playground sounded like a truck stop. They are also creative cursers, which would make it fun. E.g., “(Real) playground retort” / A§§ NOSE (I’m sure there wouldn’t be any complaints about that in the comments 😉) Emus, they DO TOO.
just when i’d thought the answer would always be “épée”. ah, well. épééd again.
@deborah That got me, too, even though as I was typing épée, I thought “What if it’s FOIL?”
It's easy to get thrown off by unexpected answers -- always best to stay en garde.
@Eric Hougland I am so used to epee appearing in puzzles that I never even considered FOIL a possibility …. until the crosses made it clear. I was absolutely delighted to see this curveball. I’m too lazy to look up how many times FOIL has been used, but I can’t remember ever seeing it in connection with a fencing clue. Of course as a well meaning, elderly gentleman my memory is a frail reed on which to rely.
That was a fun puzzle, and educational too. I'd like to add one, pointed out to me a long time ago by a bilingual co-worker: "Brea" in Spanish mean "Tar", and of course "La" means "The", so the Los Angeles site know as "The La Brea Tar Pits" means "The The Tar Tar Pits."
@Mark Abe And your American League baseball team is The The Angels Angels, right?
I was disappointed to eventually figure out that 29D “what some workout videos promise” is not ASSOFSTEEL.
The linguistics professor tautological group. (The class even made up a skit! It was a play on words.)
@Mike I hear that they bring IPAs to class. Then they sit around making strange sounds.
@Mike Where's my punch? You beat me to it. My version was going to be something like: The math professor taught a logical subject. ..
Sam Corbin, you wrote “It wouldn’t be a week at the New York Times Crossword without a nautical clue that’s new to me.” Where were you on Saturday? 47A “Pole used for extending a sail” SPRIT
@Eric Hougland I've heard "bowsprit" but hadn't heard "sprit" by itself
There are thousands of ways to clue "Ron" without invoking the name of that odious governor of Florida. Otherwise, it was a wonderful puzzle
@Grant I criticized a public figure and you criticized me, a crossword solver. They are not one and the same. Desantis has made a career of sowing hate and is actively putting the entire LGBT community at risk. I will rein in my dislike of Ron when I, and those like me, can peacefully use the bathroom in his state without fear of arrest. I refuse to apologize for not liking fascists.
@Grant I get Alison’s point, and i didn’t find your response offensive. Tone is half the communication, and almost entirely absent in online communication. The NYT crossword features a bit of liberal hero worship? Surely, you jest. Jokes aside, may we grant each other some latitude to offend. We still have more in common than not. Happy cross-wording.
A better--though possibly outdated--clue for ON TOE: What the avid reader exclaimed after finishing the D volume of the encyclopedia?
Solved while wearing my sombrero hat and drinking chai tea with panini sandwiches (instead of my usual naan bread). Theme was singularly unique, though it went by in fast blur (stop me please). Speaking of tautologies - are there any types of abs that are not steel? (That’s a humorous joke). One of my favorite jazz singers singing the Talking Heads’ HEAVEN. Jimmy Scott: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8SoBRt7ct4" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8SoBRt7ct4</a>
@Puzzlemucker I'll see your HEAVEN and raise you a Wind that Shakes the BARLEY. This version sung by Lisa Gerrard of Dead Can Dance. <a href="https://youtu.be/70FMcCM3_aA?si=sAMugjunAbHBLDBq" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/70FMcCM3_aA?si=sAMugjunAbHBLDBq</a>
Great puzzle. I learned something and I had fun! Isn't that all we can ask for?
Currently I can only do Mondays and Tuesdays without hints, and it's my New Year's resolution to be able to do Wednesdays as well. This is the first Wednesday I have been able to accomplish!
@Cici Congratulations 😊 Just keep at it and you will be solving every day.
@Cici Congratulations! Crossword solving really is something where the more you do it, the better you get at it. Give Thursdays a try sometime. They can be tricky, but if you figure out the trick, it’s usually not too hard to finish the puzzle. Best of luck!
could we dial it back to one playground retort per week please? and speaking of "one," 65A has to be one of the most contrived clues in nyt history! sorry for being a hater! the rest of the puzzle was cute.
@cal 65A really bothered me too! Why did the clue have an abbreviation, but not the answer??? I got “one” on my first pass, but discarded it immediately for that reason and only hesitantly wrote it in after a corroborating cross.
There are so many of these out there, either outright repetitions or at least partial ones. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names</a> My favorite has always been The La Brea Tar Pits...the the tar tar pits.
Just for kicks, I’ll add a couple from WA: Walla Walla River: Little River River (Walla by itself means river in Sahaptin. Doubling it reduces it to little river, which is a lot like what you’d do in English if you called it a teeny weeny or itsy (b)itsy river, but I digress. Which I promise to do less and less going forward.) There are also the Deschutes Falls in Tumwater, WA, which, if we translate both the French and the Chinook, gives us Falls Falls, Falls, WA. I loved the theme — this puzzle was the best free gift of my day and learning that EAST TIMOR is a tautology was an added bonus. (Wait, is it a free gift since I prepaid my subscription in advance?) I’ll show myself out.
@Sam Lyons: And for the southern Californians among us, there's The La Brea Tar Pits, which translates to The The Tar Tar Pits.
Another tautological place name: Canyon de Chelly (Navajo reservation). "Chelly" is the Spanish rendition of Navajo "tsegi," meaning "canyon."
@Fact Boy I didn’t know that. We visited Canyon de Chelly 10 or 15 years ago. Beautiful place.
My favorite tautological phrase is THE LA BREA TAR PITS. "La Brea" means "the tar." So the phrase translates to "The the tar tar pits." Could we possibly have a moratorium on playground taunts in the puzzles? You know the ones: IS TOO, IS NOT, AM SO, ARE TOO, etc. Thank you.
@Bob Claster Thanks, Bob, you beat me to it! I just posted the same thing before I saw your comment. Fond memories of walking by there on my lunch breaks many years ago. And I agree with you about the playground taunts, though they bother me less than a lot of other crosswordese.
I was in flow with this puzzle which always makes solving immensely enjoyable. On top of that, I got to learn something new, adding to an already splendid experience. I will add these tautologies to the redundant Chai tea which has previously appeared in this forum. Thank you , Mr. Martinovic. I feel like I inhaled your puzzle and now am completely satiated!
Huh! Didn’t know that and glad to learn it! Many new facts that come my way are throw-aways, not worth consciously registering, quickly tossed, but today’s tautologies struck my fancy, were of the “Well, I’ll be!” ilk. They’re keepers. As a puzzle, this was plenty of a riddle for me, trying to figure out the theme, wondering what the connection was between the places and the languages in parentheses in their clues, before I got to the revealer. Now, after solving, I’m d’oh-ing all over the place, wondering why I didn’t figure it out. It seems so gettable now. But you outfoxed me fair and square, Jeffrey – and I like that almost as much as if I had figured it out. Also, my brain enjoyed burrowing all over the place, trying to crack the riddle. The tautologies reminded me of a professor I had who criticized a student for being “redundant and overly repetitive”, and he wasn’t making a joke! Sometimes in life, something crosses your path that is so funny, you never forget it. Anyway, Jeffrey, thank you for the riddle and for the cool new facts. And congratulations on your third puzzle in less than three months!
@Lewis "Redundant and overly repetitive." Hahaha! I'll need to borrow that one. . . . . . . Emus are soooo unwelcomingly unwelcome.
Two personal notes about this puzzle- There were *many* names and such that I did not know, not even in the depths of my memory bank (that is certainly holding less info than in my earlier years, but some were not even going to be found the the archives of the attic crawl spaces in my dusty old noodle). But, with the crosses, all was sussed out, no look-ups, and I learned more than a few things! That’s good stuff, especially on a Wednesday. Crosswords are two chances, two unique paths, to find the correct letter to plop into that little box. So, was it a bunch of obscure, proper names and trivia? Yup. And I loved it.
Just a ballet dancer complaining about 53D because no one ever says that. The correct answer would be EN POINTE or at least ON POINT(E). Added crossword fun for the french terminology. Other than that, a wonderful puzzle full of really interesting, new trivia knowledge. A shame all of the tautology gave me flashbacks to HSC Adv. English
@Steph Z I am not a dancer, but this one ( I think it, or a variation) has come up relatively recently. Always makes me slightly grumpy!
@Steph Z Yes! Thank you. I also find the term slightly jarring. My daughter was an aspiring ballet dancer until she discovered boys and a social life in her teens, much to her teacher’s dismay. The term used was always en pointe. ON TOE isn’t wrong, just grammatically clumsy.
My governor, Meatball Ron, clued in an otherwise good puzzle? Please, never again!!
@John Dietsch Don't you think it can serve Society for us to have some Dreadful Examples and Cautionary Tales? Reminders of the dangers lurking just beyond the horizon....
@John Dietsch Please let us know when you plan to move back to New York. Seriously? He's only the second-best governor in the US.
“These solved answers came to me lightning fast. It was simply easy,” said the redundant and repetitive man while sipping small tastes of chai tea.
@Embee Nice to see you back! >>>>
I loved this theme! I assume I’m not the only one who had another muscle group before it became apparent it was “ABS”…
Here in NZ we have a few example these, mostly after the settlers added layers to the original Māori names. My favourite is Mount Maunganui, a seaside town. It translates into “Mount Big (nui) Mountain (maunga).
Cool theme! We could add this one: Highest point in Maine (Penobscot) MOUNT KATAHDIN (Now I see it’s on Steve’s giant Wikipedia list. I had no idea there were so many!)
My favorite one of these is The La Brea Tar Pits, which translates to The The Tar Tar Pits. Fun puzzle! I had ABSFORDAYS for too long…
@Tyler These verbal constructions are also called pleonasms. For several years I have wanted to construct a puzzle with them as a theme. "The La Brea Tar Pits" was in my quiver. I have barely dipped my toe into the many constructing software and/or apps that are out there and know access and use them Anyone reading this who is an experienced constructor and would like to accompany me on my path to the dark side is invited to contact me at <a href="mailto:levinealexh@gmail.com">levinealexh@gmail.com</a>
Brilliant puzzle. Such a great idea for a theme!
Near Boulder Colorado, there is Table Mesa...
@history teacher and a road near Phoenix, AZ with the same name
This is a delicious puzzle. Didn't "sprit" appear as an answer sometime in the past week?
@alex Yes, it appeared on Saturday. The clue then was materially the same: "Pole used for extending a sail." And before that, not for five years. !!!
Seems that Mr. Martinovic TAUTOLOFUSALOT.
10:00am tomorrow, I’m packing up my 8 year old son and my 5 year old daughter, and I’m heading for Lake Lake (LAKE TAHOE). My wife and 2 year old daughter are staying home, so it’ll just be daddy and the older two. Can’t wait. A gentler puzzle tonight than our Tuesday, but no less enjoyable. I learned what TAUTOLOGICAL means, which is awesome. Hope it sticks. Thanks for the fun puzzle, Jeffrey Martinovich!
@Striker And Woods? (He must be huge by now.) . . . (Do flightless ratite emus appreciate a tautology?)
@Striker Bring your chains. I'm just down the hill from Tahoe and it's pouring rain right now. It's probably dumping snow up there.
My short summary is that, first and foremost, this puzzle’s theme is a new innovation. Et tu, emu.
@Lewis Hah! And how can something be both "new" and "improved"?
Had a good chuckle at the theme, once I came to the column to confirm what I thought was going on. Just last weekend I went to an Indian restaurant and my sister and I were observing the redundancy (or, I guess, tautology?) of chai tea and naan bread. Also, I’m pretty sure there’s a rule that a four letter sword must be an epee, not a FOIL. Get it together, editors! ;)
This theme is mind-blowing to me - what a joy! Didn’t get it until I read the column but now I’ll be ‘investigating persistently’ for the rest of the morning. I love learning about language and words despite my limited vocabulary 🤭 Bravo Jeffrey!
I was really hoping that “What some workout videos promise” 29D would be ab-solution...
Anybody else come up with ASSOFSTEEL? Just me?
@Ken I just came here to say that! I couldn't remember the name of the fairy queen crossing at 33A, and thought AsSOFSTEEL was just a clever reference to the "buns of steel" workout videos. Eventually I figured out my mistake...
@Ken Also, having scrolled through the comments, several others also guessed this body part at first :-)
Funnily enough, I solved this in a PANERABREAD, which isn't an exact fit to the theme, but... close enough! Great puzzle overall; I particularly enjoyed the ABSOFSTEEL fill.
An odd personal association. I have in my lounge room a roughly ten Ana a half inch high replica of THE KISS, apparently the same size as the version in New York. I received it as a bequest from one of two of my mother’s cousins who worked in the fifties for The New York Times.
Great puzzle, and as many, multiple other people have already repeatedly said below, very enlightening, too! I wonder if other languages have many instances of tautology, or if it's strictly an English thing? Seems like a decidedly American thing to do, at least. I can't help but think the files got shuffled, and this was supposed to be the "Tuesday", while yesterday's was the "Wednesday".
Bret, Regarding whether it's strictly an English thing, when you read the posts before yours you must not have clicked on this link in a post from Steve L: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names</a> ............................
Not to brag, but I got ABS OF STEEL from just the clue and the initial A. Not a fan of active politicians as NYT xword fill. TIL that the Sahara is 8% of the Earth’s landmass. Those flat earth maps we studied as children must have been massively distorted! It also made me ponder the long, perilous trek in “Lawrence of Arabia” which crosses just a tiny edge portion of the Sahara. TIL the meaning of TAUTOLIGICAL, which I did by asking SIRI after solving 5 minutes faster than my usual mark. I spent as much time enjoying the column as I did on the solve; I’d worked out that the name came from the language, but I wasn’t getting all the fun until the column. Bravi tutti.
@Jennifer It might be time to rewatch “Lawrence of Arabia.” I’m pretty sure none of it takes place in the Sahara. But you’re right about the maps. Whatever kind of projection that is (Mercator, maybe) distorts the sizes of Eurasia and North America relative to Africa and South America.
Solved the puzzle but gave up on trying to connect the themed clue to the names, mainly because I don’t speak Arabic, Washoe, Algonquin or Indonesian. Just Canajun, eh? None the less, kudos to Mr. Martinovic for his ingenuity that inspired him to create this Wednesday puzzle. Evidently, he TAUTOLOTOFUS some interesting things about place names around the world — as did several of you out in this community. …….. !!!!!!! “Emu”, I learned from Google, is derived from either an Arabic or Portuguese word meaning “large bird”. Who knew?
Well, I was appropriately puzzled by this one for quite a while. I finally worked enough crosses to get the reveal, and then had to go look at the theme answers for a moment before it finally dawned on me with SAHARADESERT. I 'think' I might have been aware of the tautological meaning of a couple of the others at one time, but I'm sure I wouldn't have remembered. That's all on me. Really cute puzzle and a great theme. And here's another really fun puzzle - A Sunday from January 16, 2011 by Joon Pahk with the title: "A river puns through it." Some of theme answers were a pair of acrosses and others were all in one answers. A couple of examples: MISSOURI LOVESCOMPANY YANGTZEDOODLEDANDY* THAMESFIGHTINWORDS Here's the Xword Info link: <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/Crossword?date=1/16/2011&g=23&d=A" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/Crossword?date=1/16/2011&g=23&d=A</a> And... YANGTZEDOODLEDANDY wasn't a debut. It was originally in a Sunday puzzle from July 8, 1973 by Thomas Sheehan. A couple of other theme answers in that one: WOMENSLIBYA AMMANFORALLSEASONS JUAREZHELL And here's that link: <a href="https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=7/8/1973&g=34&d=A" target="_blank">https://www.xwordinfo.com/PS?date=7/8/1973&g=34&d=A</a> I'm done. ..
Excellent puzzle. Solved it with my daughter who learned what tautology is. Thanks.
I’ve wanted to post on this before, and today is the day. At risk of sounding elitist: “on toe” is not really a ballet term. “En pointe” is the term, and the shoes are pointe shoes, not toe shoes. In my experience of the (professional) ballet world, “on toe” is the mark of the amateur. Yes, large swaths of Americans probably heard “on toe” at their local childhood dance academies. But it’s not the accepted term. I’m making myself cringe, but I’ve seen this clue several times now - perhaps an “informally”, or “Americanized ballet term”, or….? I dunno. Ok, back to my issue of Didactic Weekly.
@Owen “ Yes, large swaths of Americans probably heard “on toe” at their local childhood dance academies.” And that’s exactly why the clue passes muster, cringe or not. With its Wheel of Fortune common letters, it is used as needed, and that won’t change.
@Owen No need to make yourself cringe. I, for one and as a ballet student from age three to thirteen, very much value your contribution to the general culture of NYT puzzlers. Steve L is, of course, correct as to why ON TOE will keep being used in crosslandia. But, the same way he's clarified why we should expect to keep seeing ON TOE, your PSA about "en pointe" brings knowledge to those who like to add to their vocabulary and who will now know to use in conversation the worldwide established ballet term. Thank you for your post, especially for being informative minus any aggression toward the constructor and editors. I appreciate it on both counts.
@Steve L I totally get it. Notice I didn’t have a good solution 😅 I think I’d just appreciate an acknowledgement that it’s more of a layman’s term. (I am no working today, clearly).
This is the kind of wordplay that I love, so the puzzle was a very special treat for me. And there was a second, surprise treat -- all the wonderful tautologies contributed by the WP commenters. I shouldn't have been surprised, of course. I've been around these WPers long enough to have expected nothing less. Thanks to everyone for a fun break in an otherwise rather dull day.
Fun themed puzzle, and much easier than this week’s Monday and Tuesday!
The wee pup BB, who misses deeply her human's daughter currently residing near Lake Tahoe, gives two vigorous ARFs for this puzzle, providing both intellectual challenge and humor in equal measure, which is the best kind of puzzle. Well done and thanks for the fun. (We needn't get into a discussion about whether tautology is equivalent to redundancy, as that would spoil the fun.) I'm sure that many of us remember the spelling song featuring the Great River ("It used to be so hard to spell, it used to make me cry."), also those funny old cartoons that were sing-alongs with the instructions, "just follow the bouncing ball!" No way to forget anything with that sort of cementing of memory.
I love when a crossword teaches me something . Fascinating that the places mentioned are just the name of the geographical feature in a native language . Great work Jeff !